Sycophant Hex ~ View topic - WHAT NOW FOR SNAPE ROMANCERS? AN ANALYSIS OF HBP SNAPE

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< The Library ~ WHAT NOW FOR SNAPE ROMANCERS? AN ANALYSIS OF HBP SNAPE

savextonight

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 6:29 pm

Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 1

As soon as I finished chapter 2, I said, "...and thus dies all Snape fangirls." Very tragic, really...the SS/HG fics were really quite interesting, though so many assumptions about him die with this book. I'll probably continue to read them, and I hope the authors will somehow be able to finish their uncompleted stories, still bearing in mind the old fanon Snape.

I'm still not certain where I stand...there is the SLIMMEST chance Dumbledore did ask Snape to kill him. But I feel 98% sure Snape is just a sad, evil bastard.

Meredith

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 6:57 pm

Joined: 09 Jun 2005 Posts: 2 Location: Arizona

I really believe that Dumbledore knew Snape had made the vow with Narcissa, and thus knew that Snape would have to kill him in the end. When reading chapter two, I got the impression that Snape really didn't know the actual plan. Southern Witch had told me she thought Snape was fishing for information from Narcissa, and I am inclined to believe that is a possibility. The biggest bother to me in that chapter was Emmeline Vance. That was horrible to contemplate.

As far as Snape still referring to himself as the Half-blood Prince, I read that statement as an explanation to Harry whose potions book he had been using, not that he still thought of himself that way.

When he got angry about Harry calling him a coward, I think that was a reaction to his killing of Dumbledore, which, quite frankly, had to have taken a lot of guts to do IF it was something he hadn't wanted to do in the first place. I'd also thought that when Dumbledore made Harry go with him to retrieve the locket, and made Harry promise to force him to finish drinking the potion, that was done so that Harry could somehow empathize with Snape being forced to kill Dumbledore. Perhaps not empathize, but see it the same way Dumbledore saw it, as being loyal and following an order.

I guess I am hoping for Snape's redemption in book seven. And yes, in order to kill Dumbledore with 'Avada Kedavra,' Snape had to have a lot of power, hate, etc., and more importantly had to mean it, so I think things could still go either way.

cstelzer

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 7:01 pm

Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 4

I don't think that Snape referring to himself as the half blood prince was what everyone is making it out to be. Think about it, Snape knows that Harry has his old book, from when he used that curse on Draco. He must also assume then that Harry knows it was written by someone called that Half Blood Prince. Given Snapes opinon of Harry's intellegence, which isn't that high, he must then assume that Harry has not figured out who the Half Blood Prince is, especially since he has not approached Snape or Dumbledore about it. I think Snape calls himself the Half Blood Prince to let Harry know that it was his book, how else was he to quickly communicate it to him, it is not like he could say, "Could you stop hexing me so I can explain that I wrote the book." Also just by telling Harry not to use his own spells on him, and that he invented them, was not enough to convay that, how does Harry know that the Half Blood Prince invented them or just copied them down.

I think that the fact that Snape wrote that book will become important later on, maybe in the way of redeeming or condemning Snape. And that was the only way he could tell Harry that he was the author at the time.

Also how do we know that Snape did not tell Dumbledore about Harry having the book, Dumbledore might have just not done anything. There could be several reasons that Dumbledore had for not taking the book away from Harry. For one thing he could have thought that Harry would not use it again after what happened to Draco, he might have thought that Harry would be too scared or upset to even read the book again. Or, as I mentioned eariler, there is something in there to redeem or condemn Snape, and Dumbledore wants Harry to have the book, knowing he will probably die soon, to get that information.

Also I think that Snape was a spy for the order. Think about it, Dumbledore knows Draco was trying to kill him, he says so at the end. He also knows that it was Draco who posioned the wine, and tried to get the neckle into the school. All those times that Harry told Dumbledore about Draco, Dumbledore acts as if he is not surprised. I think Snape told him what was going on. I also think that they did not do anything to stop Draco because Snape gave his unbreakable vow to protect and help Draco, so if Dumbledore did anything, it might cause Snape to have to break his vow and die, especially if he was the one to tell Dumbledore. and Dumbledore says when asked about why he didn't try to stop Draco, "I tried, Draco. Professor Snape has been keeping watch over you on my orders-" Dumbeldore also says "I knew that you would have been murdered if Lord Voldemort realized that I suspected you." Now how would Dumbeldore know that unless he had a spy who knew about the situation, like Snape.

Another thing is Dumbledore asks Draco, in front of Harry, if Snape knew about the death eaters coming that night, and Draco says no, that Snape would have wanted the glory for himself. I think Dumbledore made sure to ask this in front of Harry to make sure Harry knew that Snape knew nothing of this plan. I think that Snape fics are still safe, but are completly changed. Gone are a lot of our allusions about Snape, and now we simply have to work with the abundence of information we just got. I don't doubt in the least however that we will lose many people on the different Snape ships, but I think they will still sail regardless.

julietbencsik

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 7:39 pm

Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 4 Location: London

I mean, really - there had never been ANY hint of romance between Snape & Hermione in any of the books. Doesn't stop the fantastic stories.

Do what you've always done guys - take the information (thank you very much JKR) and TWIST IT.

Personally, this book has actually led me to try and right fanfiction. Have done the prologue for a story "Snape's Redemption" but obviously cannot paste until after 31 July on Ashwinder.

Maybe AFF or Whispers?

azazello

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 7:53 pm

Joined: 29 Nov 2004 Posts: 183 Location: Northern UK

She's not writing these stories for adults who find Snape or Rickman teh sex.

She's not writing for the meta posters who take her canon and turn it upside down and insist the DE point of view is justified and justifiable.

She's not writing for the text analysts who insist the following:

Despite the fact the hard evidence suggest Snape is a selfish maladjusted SOB, I am going to take no notice because it's all about teh subtext, right?

She's writing for a bunch of kids.

Actually she isn't; she's doing what all writers do, telling stories for herself.

She's said all along that Snape is "a deeply horrible person". Fandom chose to read the evidence wrongly. That's all.

_________________
Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony ~ Monty Python and the Holy Grail

Severusgirlx

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 8:13 pm

Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 4

Hey, what's going on here? Snape romance is NOT dead. And not only because he is most definitley on the side of good.

I don't write my Snape romances because I truly think canon Snape is going to get canon Granger into bed. I write because that's where my wicked imagination takes me, and if people want to go there with me, fine.

Snape a wanker because he tells Harry he's the HBP? No. He tells Harry to emphasis he knows Harry had his book. And he knows damn well that Harry DIDN'T know it was his book.

And Snape would have had access to that book from birth. It was his mother's.

JKR gave us a good helping of Snape's robes billowing; she gave us some lovely quotes; she had him speaking with a 'loving caress' *sigh* and she also has Trelawney describe him as a 'thrusting young man'. What more could you want.

The only fanfic authors who are drowning at the moment are the ones who are shouting 'abandon ship'. I'm staying put. And if I end up going down - I'm going down on...oops sorry...WITH Severus.

cstelzer

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 8:20 pm

Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 4

Yes, she did say that Snape was a deeply horrible person, and I believe he is. But she also said that Snape has a redemption pattern that will become evident in book 7, which makes me believe that no matter how bad a person he is, he will still be redeemed in book 7. Lets all face it, Snape is not a nice guy, never was. He is mean, petty, revengeful, and just an all around bad guy. He will never declare that he has always like Harry and just couldn't show it, he will never say that he had to act like a bad guy or Voldemort will kill him, and he will never declare his love for someone and suddenly become a different person. But that doesn't mean he wasn't loyal to Dumbledore. We do have a lot of clues that point the way to the fact that he was, not just in HBP, but in all the books. We were made to start questioning his loyalities in book one with Quillel, and in ever book since then we have had more and more reasons to wonder about Snape, JKR has been leading up to this for a while. But through it all Dumbledore has always trusted Snape, and has tried to get Harry to as well. I don't think trust was something that Dumbledore gave away very lightly, he couldn't afford to with Voldemort around. There is a very good reason why Dumbledore gave Snape his trust, I personally think it has something to do with Lily, but regardless until we know why Dumbledore trusted Snape so much we can't be postive he was who side he was on.

PenAgainstSword

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 11:57 pm

Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 10

I don't think that he called himself the Half-Blood Prince because he still titles himself that.

Ever think that JKR had him say that to reveal that it was him?

Ever think that he had to say he was the Half-Blood Prince so he could explain "my own spells used against me"?

Just making a point. I am from here on out the devil's advocate. Debating is fun. ^_^

snarkyroxy

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 12:23 am

Joined: 09 May 2005 Posts: 7 Location: Adelaide, Australia

Just my two cents on the Half-Blood Prince name...

This Book is the Property of the Half-Blood Prince

What if it isn't some sort of "impressive new name (like) Lord Voldemort" as Harry thinks.

What if it's a derogatory term, written out of hatred and spite.

A poor, Slytherin half-blood being taunted by his peers. His mother's maiden name is Prince, so they turn it into a cruel joke: The Half-Blood Prince. Or, to be accurate: The Half-Blood, Prince.

Whether it is Snape or his peers that refuse to recognise his Muggle father's name is up for debate. Maybe he then adopts the name to distance himself from his father, Muggles, and what he perceives as a name unworthy of magic.

Maybe Snape wrote the name in his Potions book out of spite, knowing that, despite his parentage, he was more intelligent that the rest of them by a long shot.

And when he proclaims himself as the Half-Blood Prince to Harry at the end of the book, I don't think it's done in a proud way. I think it's done with the same sarcasm and spite his peers used when they called him the name years earlier.

Snape hated it, but he spat the name at Harry in a moment of fierce yet sarcastic pride. The people who taunted him with it were wrong... blood doesn't matter in the slightest when it comes to intelligence, bravery, courage...

Anyway, just something to think about Confused

snarkyroxy

ivcacaur

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 1:10 am

Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 1 Location: South America

I, too, think Snape was being sarcastic when he called himself ¨The Half Blood Prince¨ .

Perhaps he did not come up with that name, perhaps his peers did...perhaps the Marauders (or one of them) did. Perhaps it was a reminder that he had the potential to be a better wizard (skills wise) than any pure blooded bloke!

I don´t know...all I know is that I´m rather depressed Crying or Very sad

. Not because I thought Snape was the epitome of perfection, but because we are left to think there is nothing good in him.

I still think something very serious must have happened for him to become so spiteful, so vindictive, so hateful and so selfish...just like Voldemort.

All I want is an explanation...I refuse to believe Sirius was right all along!

Two Methyloctane

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 3:42 am

Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 96 Location: Calgary, Canada

Plus, saying the book was property of the Half-Blood Prince makes it harder to trace him if a professor finds it and discovers his invented curses...

Chartreuse

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:18 am

Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 5

azazello wrote:

Actually she isn't; she's doing what all writers do, telling stories for herself.

She's said all along that Snape is "a deeply horrible person". Fandom chose to read the evidence wrongly. That's all.

And it's never stopped us wanting to read Snape!Sexy before, and I can't see why it does now. She's never liked him (even though he will turn out to be good - I'm 100% certain).

She does write for herself, my personal opinon as to why Hermione is so often written as Hermione-Sue, more than any character, is that she IS the Hermione-Sue of JKR. Think about what JKR says and you get Hermione. Sad, but there you go.

I will still read Snape fanon, I can't see why people are so concerned about sinking ships, who on earth wants to read Ron and Hermione??? Snape/Hermione was never going to be canon, but there is still no reason to stop the fanon. Why on earth give into it now???

BTW: Snape ships may have been ignored in this book but interesting how fanon Ginny has been portrayed. Ginny will get a lot more action based upon the fanon-like canon Ginny. Interesting.

JackieJLH

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:29 am

Joined: 23 Mar 2005 Posts: 130 Location: Florida, USA

I kind of agree with the idea that Snape didn't create the Half-Blood Prince title for himself. Think about this: he's a very intelligent, very creepy little boy. We've seen through Hermione that intelligence is not always seen as a good thing - especially in the first few years of school. On top of that, he's a Half-blood tossed into Slytherin, a house that is just dripping in blood-purity issues.

They may have just called him a Half-blood, but I think somewhere along the line, someone learned his mother's maiden name, and styled him the Half-Blood Prince to mock him. I can see Snape being very self-hating, and using the title almost sarcastically - I think he would find it amusing in a twisted sort of way, that once again someone with Muggle blood has shown up the Purebloods at Hogwarts. And when he uses the title with Harry? Perhaps it has become his own private way of mocking himself - he wouldn't be the first person to be haunted by a childish taunt of a classmate through adulthood, especially if he had been hurt by it at the time.

_________________
~Jackie

I once had a real life. Then I discovered Harry Potter. Then I discovered Harry Potter on the internet... *shrug* Real life is overrated anyway.

undertheumbrella

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 8:07 am

Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 3 Location: Canada

Do you recall when Dumbledore told Harry about him being cleverer than most wizards; and that if he did make mistakes, they are all the more huge?

Strangely, Severus kept nagging at the back of my head when I read that. I can't help but think that Severus might just be a hopeless case.

-- Will be praying feverishly from here til #7 that I'm wrong!

snapeaddict

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 8:53 am

Joined: 25 Dec 2004 Posts: 48

Call me a stupid fangirly cow, which I'm sure you will, but I still firmly believe in Dumbledore's judgement. He repeatedly pointed it out that he had reason to trust him.

I believe the argument that Hagrid overheard was all about Dumbledore requesting to be killed in the event that anything like that should happen. Who knows what that potion would have done to him? Maybe death would have been the better option. And this way, at least his death wasn't entirely pointless. It strengthened Severus' position with the DE and it probably helped impress a hesitant Malfoy. My theory...

That does not say that Snape is an entirely good character. No, he's full of spite and malice and thoughts of revenge. He's an unpleasant character all right, but I still don't believe he's purely evil. He's ambiguous, so much is for sure.

Or let's put it that way...if it turns out Harry was right all along, evil Snape was always evil and everyone else who kept calling him paranoid were soooo wrong in treating poor Harry like that... I would be very disappointed because I'd say that was very uninventive. It would also cast a bad light upon almost every character in the books except the shining hero Harry - the boy who lived, The Chosen One and...latest change of title...the boy who knew all along or the boy who knew better than Dumbledore. Ouch! No, Jo....don't go down that road, it would make having read all seven books feel a right waste of time.

I'd have to Obliviate myself then and learn a few Unforgiveable Curses. *g* And then I'd start reading fan fic.

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