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| RachelW |
 Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 11:47 pm |
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Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 64
Location: The Republic of Texas
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liquidscissors wrote: Keep on going, we might be able to get Sycophant Hex's F_W virginity popped.
Eremmm....what, exactly is 'F_W virginity'? |
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| LariLee |
| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 11:54 pm |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
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Location: Kentucky, USA
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liquidscissors wrote: Keep on going, we might be able to get Sycophant Hex's F_W virginity popped.
RachelW wrote: Eremmm....what, exactly is 'F_W virginity'?
Hope I did the quotes right, but I was wondering the same thing. Fascinating discussion on Snape's character.
~Lisa/LariLee |
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| snapeaddict |
| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:04 am |
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Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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azazello wrote:
Then may I ask, why are you getting on your high horse about this? Because if as you say you have no issue about this, why are you so annoyed about my view point?
I just wish anyone could confirm that I never got on any high horse at all.
On the contratry, I tried to follow your line of argumentation and tried to see your point of view. I even tried to establish points where we probably agree in our opinions. I would not really call that hostile.
That exactly was the point about my objecting at all. I was objecting to the way you lumped together all who had a different view on things, ruled out their writing as "no real stories" and labelled them perverts. I just don't like generalisations, that's all.
I was never aggressive, mean or offended anyone, I just tried to argue my point and make you understand other people's perspective.
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What is your problem with someone disagreeing? If your point is so good, why the problem with someone objecting?
There is none. I don't have a problem with people disagreeing but I expect that from others, too.
Quote: And I'm still waiting in vain for a well argued rebuttal.
As long as you will rule out any other opinion than your own as "not well argued", I assure you there will never will be.
I tried to show up various traces of "emotionally controlled" and "dominant" Snape in canon but you did not respond to any of those. At least I TRIED to understand your point of view and I still believe that "your" (or canon) Snape and "my" imagination of Snape are actually not that far apart. But if you choose to ignore any arguments people produce, I think there's not much sense in taking this any further.
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And it was never a "light hearted discussion of Snape" - essentially this was an atttempt at getting validation for your views and I spoiled it.
Actually it was. I never asked for validation on my views or my writing, I don't think I need validation for that matter. I just argued my point and asked you to - please - be a bit less generalising and dismissive toward those who didn't share yours.
Not everything is black and white, devils and angels. There ARE shades of grey and I just wanted to take up the cudgels for those writers whose fictions I read and greatly enjoyed, even though I couldn't agree with them in every part. I think writing fan fic is all about fun, about experimenting with settings, characters, story writing, point of view, about imagination and filling gaps in the books we love.
All I was trying to say is that no one should try and give out "right" and "wrong" cards. We should be more open. I'm not saying that you have to read and like everything people write but I think you are misjudging people if you say "EVERYONE who does this or that is so and so".
I think you were taking this too seriously and too personal. I never offended or provoked you or anyone else, I just tried to get my point across, which I think, is the whole point of a "discussion", isn't it?
I never said I was any better than you, just because I have a different view on things but you repeatedly did express that you felt superior to anyone with a different opinon. At least that was the impression you created. If I'm mistaken there, I have to apologise. (And will gladly do so). |
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| RachelW |
| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:25 am |
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Joined: 15 Dec 2004
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Location: The Republic of Texas
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LariLee wrote:
Darn it! I need to get a highlighter and highlight all the Snape passages, but I think he also hisses and whispers and he spits out his words and in the Shrieking Shack, he also shouts and yells.
~Lisa/LariLee
I've been looking all over for this website, and I haven't been able to find it today...but it had ALL the Snape quotes from all five books. It also had everything Rowling has said about Snape in interviews as well and now I can't find it. But, it's all online, will try to get a link sometime soon. |
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| Snape's Patronus |
| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 4:54 am |
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Joined: 20 Dec 2004
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Location: Inside my own head.
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RachelW wrote: For some reason, I just thought of a fic, I think it was a one-shot where Snape and Hermione ended up in something of a non-traditional relationship. They would get together about once a month or so to spend the weekend together. Neither wanted to get married, but he would offer every few years, just in case that's what Hermione might have wanted. It seemed to me like the kind of thing he'd go for, since yeah, I think he would have a hard time maintaining a typical relationship.
I could see him in that sort of relationship, once Voldemort is gone for good (though not with Hermione). He clearly doesn't like children, so I don't see him ever settling down in the traditional marriage-and-kids arrangement too many ficwriters stick him in.
Quote: Snape falling in love is difficult...very difficult. I tend to think he hasn't experienced much love at all in his life...
I see him the same way. Someone--his mother, perhaps?--may have loved him as a small child, but somewhere along the way I think he lost whatever reliable source of love he had. He doesn't know how to handle love, both as far as his own feelings go or those of other people toward him.
From the angle I've taken, he is loved by certain people, and they more or less let him know it, but it's not romantic love. It's a very deep affection and sympathy, in one particular case, but there are certain limits in place that dictate how it is expressed. Though there is genuine mutual regard, Severus still keeps an arm's-length distance.
Quote: ...and it may even be possible he wouldn't know love if he did experience it...he would oppose anything that might be seen as 'wearing one's heart on their sleeve'.
My way of getting Severus to fall in love involves giving him plenty of chances to call it something else that is much less threatening. Admiration. Respect. Intellectual rapport. Curiosity. Love itself is dangerous, but these things are safe. So he's in love for a long time before he is finally forced to admit it to himself, and when that finally happens, he doesn't handle it very well... |
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| celisnebula |
| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 8:05 am |
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Joined: 31 Dec 2004
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Meekly going to add my two cents (though not sure it's actually worth that much at this point).
I find that there are so many different levels that can be attributed to Snape. Other than the few snippets we have gotten from JK, mostly through the eyes of the young children he teaches, there is not a whole lot known about him. Children always see adults in an either or light, so for much of the books we have seen him as nothing more than an extremely cruel and terse teacher who favors his own house. There is a lot of room for interpretation here.
Don't I think I could see Snape as a virgin, at least not in the traditional sense, though I would certainly not classify him as a sex god either. I have no doubt he has had sexual experience, but I do not think he has had any meaningful sexual experiences. His life, from what I envision, hasn't been one that has allowed any softness, so the idea that he would have been able to create an intimate bond with another person in that way, just seems very unlikely. Be that as it may, he is still a man, probably a very pent up passionate man, so the idea that he would never have congregated is... well, not something, I could feasibly conceive.
As far as bondage, yes I could see that as something that could appeal to Snape; it is all about control, and I think having control is something that is very important to him. Again, this comes into the whole realm of sexual congress… Snape is probably someone who has experimented widely, it is not at all hard to have sex in this world (even I a plump American with a child in tow was proposition while vacationing in London last summer), so I have no doubts that he would have access to all sorts of kink.
Emotionally defunct, scarred, and embittered are all layers that could be see within the Snape persona. He is a man with an interesting code of ethics, almost an obsessive need for redemption (though we are not privy to what caused his fracture from Voldemort), there are so many ways this character can be played out. Does the adolescent vision we get of him completely encompass the man, no… and I doubt that we will ever have a clear picture of him, but there are so many things that can be played out in what we have seen.
It’s all a matter of perspective…
I find for writing him, I have to be in just the right sort of mood, else it doesn’t come out right. It is a halting line between terseness and vulnerability, because I think his jagged edges are there to keep people from coming in too close. He is formal because it adds another layer to his defenses, though I think there are many cracks in his veneer (we have only too look at his total melt down at the end of PoA to see that).
(I now return you to your regularly broadcasted show). |
_________________
Celis~~~
And they say we're crazy
http://www.livejournal.com/users/celisnebula/
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| Snape's Patronus |
| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 9:06 am |
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Joined: 20 Dec 2004
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Location: Inside my own head.
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snapeaddict wrote: Despite his description in the books, he is not THAT unattractive.
Just as we all seem to have different conceptions of what his sex life is like, we also seem to vary a lot on how attractive--or not--we each believe him to be.
I tend to picture him as someone who got a bad roll of the genetic dice, and for reasons all his own does little or nothing to mitigate it. If he de-greased his hair and didn't have it hanging in his face, he might look alright. Not handsome, not even all that attractive, but at least presentable. Maybe his nose wouldn't look so big and beaky if it wasn't protruding between curtains of lank hair, and maybe he even has some decent cheekbones hiding under there. Getting his yellowy teeth cleaned, and perhaps straightened, would be nice, too...
I can understand why so many writers of Snapefics (especially romance fics) insist on cleaning him up, but I can't bring myself to do it. For whatever odd reason, the Severus Snape I see in my mind's eye insists on being a gaunt, homely Potions geek who bears no resemblance whatsoever to Alan Rickman, and I've gradually grown to love him that way.
I will say this for him, however; he has long, elegant hands, he moves gracefully and carries himself with dignity, and when he's in a good mood his eyes don't look like cold, dark tunnels. He's caustically funny, with a great sense of black humor. He's the sort who goes around making snide jokes nobody else gets, but he doesn't really care because he's just trying to keep himself amused amid the rampant idiocy that surrounds him.
At first glance, he's unattractive. At second, third and fourth glances, he's still unattractive. But stick around long enough and he's at least interesting. There's an awful lot going on in that head of his, and he has a story that we only know through tantalizing little snippets in canon. There is so much more to him than meets the eye, I don't really need him to be handsome.
Quote: I mean, why do so many women choose him as a fanfic character...
Personally, I like him because he's he single most complex and fascinating character in the Potterverse. I confess that I also see a bit of myself in him; part of why I find him so amusing and even sympathetic is that his nastier qualities are my own, writ large.
I think most women who choose to write about Severus start out attracted by his "bad boy" snarky ways, which is usually combined with a crush on Alan Rickman. Unfortunately, most of the women who write about Severus end up writing him completely OOC, adding a thin veneer of snark in order to keep him dimly recognizable. Redeeming and domesticating the moody dark bastard with the mysterious, possibly tragic, past is a common enough trope in romance fiction, and that's usually what we get, in one form or another, when women write about Snape.
Quote: ...and why do we enjoy reading erotic Snape stories? He definitely IS sexually appealing, probably only to older women.
I enjoy erotic stories, and while I will read ones that feature Severus, I don't actively seek them out. Usually when I do read them, I tend to disconnect them from the Severus Snape in my own mind--they become either good or bad smut, and only incidentally Snapefics. It's a very rare writer who can keep Severus believable in that context, at least as far as I'm concerned.
As for the sexually appealing part--well, I've described my mental image of him…[laughs] If I were to sleep with him, it would be in spite of what he looks like, not because of it. |
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| Snape's Patronus |
| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 9:26 am |
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Joined: 20 Dec 2004
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Location: Inside my own head.
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RachelW wrote: liquidscissors wrote: Keep on going, we might be able to get Sycophant Hex's F_W virginity popped.
Eremmm....what, exactly is 'F_W virginity'?
"Flame War," I imagine... |
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| Snape's Patronus |
| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 10:28 am |
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Joined: 20 Dec 2004
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quote="azazello"]On the subject of Snape's sexual prowess...
Few things irritate me more than fanfic depictions of Virgin Snape who shags like an off duty pornstar.
Ladies, virgins are not good lovers - not until they have been taught one or two essentials (like lasting longer than three minutes, for instance).[/quote]
Hey, lasting three whole minutes isn't doing too badly, for a virgin…
Like you, I hit the back button when I see any male character lose his virginity with maximum skill and minimum anxiety.
Virgins usually make awful lovers, even the ones who have tried to educate themselves ahead of time. They fumble, their rhythm is off, and they usually come in at the wrong angle. They usually can only focus on doing one thing at a time, they ask too damn many questions ("Is this okay?" "Do you like this?"), and they are so deadly serious about the whole matter. If you take up with a virgin, it takes time and patience and willingness to put up with a lot of crappy-to-mediocre sex before he starts to gain skill and confidence.
That said, I'm currently writing a virgin Snape. That wasn't my original intention, but like a lot of things in this fic, it's what ended up making sense. The scene where he finally loses his virginity has been a tough one to write. It is a pivotal scene and a lot happens in it, but it's not erotic, nor was it meant to be; if there are brief erotic moments within it, they are strictly incidental. What dominates is Severus' mental and emotional state. There's certainly desire, but there's also fear, anxiety, acute embarrassment, and even brief moments of panic.
Quote: What many writers forget is one essential fact going on. That Snape, or your depiction of him, is a human being. He is a man. He may well have magic powers, but he's a person. There's far too many Snapefics out there where he isn't even recognisable as human.
I should print this out for those moments when I'm convinced I've made him too human.
Quote: Therefore, in a nutshell, if you want to write sexgod Snape provide a sexual backstory.
Similarly, if you're going to write virgin/woefully inexperienced Snape there needs to be some backstory. Either extreme deserves an explanation.
Quote: I don't personally believe he is a man who has an ongoing relationship - he'd not risk such a hostage to fortune in his position, and in fact, I doubt canon!Snape has any sex life at all.
This is what annoys me about so many Snapefics, especially the romances, out there--they completely ignore the fact that every time he is summoned by Voldemort, there is a very good chance he will not come back alive. He's spent the last 14 years knowing that Voldemort would one day return, and that he would have to resume spying at the probable cost of his own life. He's a dead man walking. He's probably amazed he's lived this long. Does he even think about his long-term future? I doubt it.
He's not free to get involved. He knows what he has to do--he has a duty to fulfill--and falling in love would very likely distract him from it. His position as a spy would also place a wife or lover in grave danger, should Voldemort decide a test of Severus' loyalty was in order. What woman would be willing to live with that kind of danger? And what kind of man would pursue a relationship, knowing that it would put his lover at risk? Sure, Severus can be a truly nasty bit of work, but I don't think he's that kind of man.
As for casual relationships, there is a certain level of trust between parties, even in a one-night stand (you trust that he's not really an axe murderer). Severus, to put it mildly, is not the most trusting individual. He may be bedding someone on occasion, but he won't bed just anyone and I'd wager that he's thoroughly checked out anyone he might be sleeping with, first.
I see so many barriers to his getting involved with anyone, either seriously or casually, that I have no trouble imagining him having so sex life at all. That's part of how he managed to stay a virgin so damn long, at least for the purposes of my fic.
Quote: Personally, I'm not interested in reading about a 36 year old virgin male, either.
[laughs] Oh, well…
Quote: This man's control freakery is inward.
I see him as having a very fierce and unforgiving internal critic, and I strongly suspect that the nasty things he says to his students--that they are incompetent, stupid, etc.--are reflections of an ongoing internal dialogue he has with himself. They are just too close to the surface, too at the ready, to be otherwise. I think he fights against it all the time, and exerting rigorous control over himself is part of how he handles it.
In order to maintain that self-control, it becomes necessary to keep other people at bay. Getting involved with their desires, emotions, passions, and demands--fully engaging them, in other words--puts that self-control at risk. |
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| Wonk |
| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 10:34 am |
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Joined: 01 Dec 2004
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I usually write Snape a virgin, just because I don't know any better.
Also, he doesn't trust people very well, and I'd have a hard time believing he'd let his guard down that much for just anyone. I think that, in canon (if such a thing exists), if he isn't a virgin, he's had very few partners.
I just like to think he's a virgin. My mind's simple and things just tend to work that way.
And I'm a prude. |
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| azazello |
| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 10:42 am |
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Joined: 29 Nov 2004
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Location: Northern UK
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F_W is fandom_wank on Journal Fen.
Fandom_Wank is a community that used to be on lj but was kicked off for terms of service violation.
Generally, when a row erupts between any number of fans, in public forum, it runs the risk of being featured for mockery over on Fandom_Wank. The wankage in question will be mocked, as might well the principal wankers. I don't think I am ready to see "Azazello is a deranged cow/egomaniac/lunatic/conceited bitch" in public forum, yet, even though I know that all those comments are true, and even though I know all those comments have indeed been made about me at some point...
Sometimes on my very own live journal!
That's generally why when this kind of non-debate denigrates into an insistence that I cannot deal with argument that I withdraw, not because I think I'm wrong. Or because I think I am losing...
Final thing (well hopefully or perhaps we can turn the heat down):
SnapeAddict, I am sorry if you read my trenchant English posting style as being a personal attack, I never said you were perverted (well no more than the rest of us...) and I never actually meant to imply that liking stories that feature what I call for lack of a better word "kink" is a bad thing. Chacun a son gout.
What I have meant to stress all along, is that I personally do not rate such stories that highly - most are indeed not very good. That's not to say every such story is rubbish. However, content like that tends not to go hand in hand with the best fanfic writing - ACCORDING TO MY TASTE. No one has to agree with that. Because all I'm actually doing here is stating my personal taste.
I also continue to say that to assume that the sort of sexual persuasions that are often depicted around Snape are based on a sound extrapolation from and reading of canon is not convincing. I've not seen a good case to make it so. And while Rachel can insist that there is an absence of canon proof to state that Snape is sexually non-kinky I think if you look at that, you'll see that we are still waving Occam's Razor around. Essentially as there is not a shred of canon to support sexually DOM Snape, then it is not canon supported. You can write it because you fancy the idea, but that's really why you are writing it. Because you find the idea sexy. Slashers prefer Snape to be gay. The smart ones freely admit there's not a shred of canon to support his being a gay man (and indeed there's not much more canon to support his being hetrosexual, either) they just write him that way, because they can. There's no sex in canon.
Finally, and this is a personal view, I think there has been a trend in the past year to write "kinkier" stories, in the SS/HG ship in particular. There's been a lot of this sort of content - and it is on the increase.
I don't particularly want to read stuff like that, and actually I do not. However, there has been a good deal of debate by writers of such stories (and they've usually started it) that their vision of Snape is valid. I think it is poor characterisation, and an over simplification of a complex man. Again, it's daft to try and drum up canon evidence for any of this because there is none.
Here we have a thread to discuss the fanfic writing of Snape. I'm heavily involved in Snapefic, as reader, writer and site admin. I'm actually also interested in the way fanfic writing trends develop. I've written over 350,000 words about the guy in 16 months. Most of what I've written has been very well received (alright, the fangirls hate me, but like I care?). I also, and I shall now stand unveiled as the egomaniac people call me, happen to think my work is highly original. I do not actually follow trends or write for popularlity - but tend to write a story and sod what readers think.
However there are two trends at present: One is that the general rating is getting raunchier all the time. There's a lot more smut and it is a lot more explicit. Now I like a bit of good clean smut as much as the next person, but at the end of the day, I read the average smut piece once. And I usually only read smut -centric stuff if it is a one shot (with one or two writers who are exceptions to that). I certainly cannot usually be bothered reading chaptered smut-only stuff. With smut I'm after instant gratification.
Story - now that's a different thing altogether. Page turners generally are not about smut. In the case of smut, I can pretty much guess what happened next. With one or two notable and fine exceptions. There's always exceptions, by the way.
I'd say up to the end of last year, we had a lot of fairly standard consenting het smut around. And it was pretty good. Earlier this year, a new trend seems to have emerged - where it all gets a lot kinkier. Silly stories (certainly the ones I've read) which are merely a catalogue of kink and are so much canon rape I wonder whether the authors have actually read the Harry Potter books, or if they are merely drooling over Alan in the movies. Now, these stories have a right to exist, and readers have a right to enjoy them, too. However, this particular reader likes her stuff canon based.
And up the ante you have to, once you go down the kink route. And some of the scenes in these stories strike me as just plain ugly - I wonder at the writers insisting they like Snape and Hermione because it certainly does not look that way to me. There's a kind of underlying nastiness and ugliness. A far cry from some of the joi de vivre I recall in smut writing by the likes, of, say Snapesflower. Her sex is always so damned enthusiastic! There are other writers who can actually keep you interested in chaptered smut: GlindaTrisst, Rilla - they both have written wonderful naughty stuff where each chapter you think, "She cannot top that!" and then she confounds you and does.
But there's a new trend which looks to me like an unstated competition to see who can go further next.
That wouldn't be so bad, if the writers of such stuff would stop trying to insist their work is deep and profound. Actually, none of our work as fanfic writers is deep and profound. It just is not. It should be written to entertain, and that is it. And kinky porn is just kinky porn. Enjoy it if you want, accept that it is never going to be important writing.
Actually no fanfic is "important".
Finally, on the subject of porn, it's been fairly proven that extensive writing and reading of such does not actually make the writer improve, but rather that the opposite is true. If you look at professional writing, there is very little sex in it. Because sex serves the plot. And plot is usually what professional writing is about.
I own a book by Irvine Welsh, called "Porno" and although it is about a bunch of losers trying to make money by making a porn film, it features little sexual depiction. The story is about the interraction between a bunch of shambolic ex-junkies.
I'm going to bow out, and wave my own tattered one true pairing banner, for that of Story/Good writing. Let's have a lot more of that in 2005. Enough with the kinky stuff, it's jading.
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| LariLee |
| Posted: Sat Jan 01, 2005 6:09 am |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
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Location: Kentucky, USA
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carecrystal wrote: I've noticed that "canon" Snape has a very limited amount of expressions: He says, he smirks, he sneers, he barks (but only one or two times in all of canon JKR---mostly, Sirius "barks". but Snape also does this on occasion.)
I plan to go through ALL of my Snapey quotes, just to double-check---but can anyone think of more expressions before I do??
I just found a great site for Snape. Everyone probably already knows about it (I just started writing in June and finally found fan fiction in August). But it's great for Snape research:
http://www.designerpotions.com/ss/ssmainpage.html
I hope the link comes out... I'm not used to posting lines yet. Though they are proving me wrong about the frock coat. I love the frock coat though. 
~Lisa/LariLee |
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| anna_kat |
| Posted: Sat Jan 01, 2005 12:40 pm |
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My contribution probably comes too late but what the heck. I can't pass up a discussion on Severus even though I am a reader, not a writer. I can't offer advise how to capture his speech patterns and mannerism, but I know when Snape rings true to me.
Language and mannerism
The first thing that strikes me about his speech patterns is that they don't hint at where he grew up, or which social class he belongs to. His verbal weapon is sarcasm, not crass rudeness. He regularly insults students but he uses 'polite' language doing it. It is not what he says, but how and to whom.
One of his best scenes is with Lockhart when he invites him to the Chamber of Secrets: "Just the man, the very man. Your moment has come at last." He is polite and sarcastic. His sarcasm always knows where to aim. For Hermione it's her academic excellence. For Harry it's his idolised father. For Neville it's his clumsiness.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall him addressing anyone by first name except Draco and Igor Karkaroff.
His speech patterns lead me to think that Snape wants to project a certain image of himself, and to conceal personal information that might be used against him. His clothes corroborate this impression because they don't reveal his status or any particular quirks. They are black. Period.
As far as his mannerisms go, I'm not quite sure what would qualify as such. He's a drama queen with the students, loves grand entrances and statements that are meant to impress, and to intimidate, humiliate and even scare students. Still, his most severe threat always is that of expulsion and that is not within his power, as he himself tells Ron and Harry in CoS.
PPP = personal pet peeves
The biggest disfavour writers can do to Snape is over-analysing him. He interests me precisely because he is not amoral like Malfoy, sadistic like Umbridge, creepy like Filch, paranoid like Moody, or ruthless like Barty Crouch Sr. There really is no need for fanfic to make Snape into either one of those.
I am constantly puzzled at fandom's (over)interpretation of what I consider normal behaviour. He does not stand out because of his commanding presence. The very first book tells us that Snape has the gift of keeping a class quiet without effort - like Minerva McGonagall. They are both strict and Minerva has resorted to sarcasm more than once. That in itself does not make Snape stand out. Nor does preventing Harry's death.
Severus Snape is a teacher. Looking after the students entrusted to them is his job. Parents and the general public hold teachers accountable for student's well-being. You don't get to be a teacher at a most prestigious (Wizarding) school for 14 years, without understanding that much. Saving Harry's life proves that Severus takes his duties seriously. It does not tell me anything about his true allegiance.
Aside from being an extremely unfair and demanding teacher, Snape's biggest character flaw, as I see it, is that he carries his hatred of James over to Harry. Like Sirius, he does not see Harry. Other than that I don't see any major darkness around him.
He was a deatheater at a very young age and turned his back on them before the fall of their leader. He can not have been much older than twenty when he left the deatheaters. How come that fandom casts him as a member of Voldemort's inner circle? How likely is a 19 year old as the right hand of an evil overlord in a rather rigidly structured society? A not rich, not influential, not popular teenager at that?
Maybe he left the deatheaters because among them he did not find the recognition he was looking for? Just a thought. And not to say that his wish for respect and recognition is anything out of the ordinary. Most people would like to be respected and recognized for their achievements. Most would not be adverse to an Order bestowed on them either.
Relationships
How does all this translate into intimate relationship? Well, he would have difficulties with intimacy, that is fairly obvious, but that does not make him a user or worse, an abuser. He accords adults respect, unless he absolutely despises them. He takes his duties extremely seriously. So much so that he goes after a despised werewolf to bring him the Wolfsbane potion and teach Occlumancy to a boy he can't stand.
I would not be surprised if he had fairly rigid views on his "duties" or proper behaviour as a lover, including making sure that his lover enjoys herself (or himself as may be the case). His fear of intimacy might very well wish him to remain in control over a sexual encounter. That does not require bondage, domination or sadism. His personality suggests a wish to control himself, not necessarily his sexual partner.
Not until he could be sure not to open himself to ridicule would he share any potential kinks. Kinks as in a wish to tie Hermione up and beat her? As a game with mutual satisfaction motivating both of them it might be possible after Severus trusts her enough to admit to any such desire.
Hardcore BDSM in a master-slave relationship with Severus as the master is very unlikely. Canon Snape in the five books does not have a dominant personality. He is an angry person who tries very hard to control his own frightful temper without being entirely successful. Sometimes he loses it spectacularly. He demands that students respect Hogwarts' rules but at the same time he issues threats he has no way of enforcing. He can't expel anyone and everyone knows it. Always, without exception, he defers to a higher authority. He is disobeyed more often than not, Neville being the only student, as far as we know, who truly fears him.
Canon Snape greatly fears vulnerability. He ridicules it in others. He does not respect it one bit. Allow me do disabuse anyone of the notion that dominant men mock the vulnerability of their submissive partners. Dominants have above average empathy or they would not be able to understand their submissive's needs, let alone meet them. They are completely focused on their submissives and not, as Snape is, on wrongs committed against him by dead people. They don't fear intense emotions and intimacy because that is what BDSM is ultimately all about. Not only for the submissive partner.
The psychology of sexual domination and the psychology of Severus Snape, as he is depicted in canon, don't go together at all. While Alan Rickman is very good at projecting charisma and dominance, canon Snape does not have the psychological make-up of a Dom.
But he has the potential for a passionate lover and for deep love. He is not unemotional at all, especially when he feels wronged. Direct all that passion into the right channels and you have a passionate, emotional man. I can see him fall in love easily, but his trust would be slow in building.
I've tried to back my interpretation up with canon. Feel free to rip it to pieces, but with canon please.
Have a happy, healthy New Year all of you. |
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| RachelW |
| Posted: Sat Jan 01, 2005 9:14 pm |
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Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 64
Location: The Republic of Texas
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That's it! I was trying to remember that site, saved it to favorites.
On the frock coat, I suppose that's one of the biggest things on Snape between the movie and the book, and I hadn't realized before just how much the frock coat and all those buttons made such a difference in the way he's percieved. In fact, I've been thinking about stuff a number of people have said about Snape...and a number of people have based elements of his personality on his wardrobe as seen in the movies.
However, he doesn't wear trousers...with or without buttons...as we see when he's 'holding his robes up above his knees' for Filtch to look at his mangled leg. So...damn...movie Snape is fanon basically, so all refrences to frock coats are out (blast and double blast!).
On the other hand, could it be possible that Rowling suggested his wardrobe, or at least okaye'd it? However, on this not, Jason Isaacs apparently had a signifigant input on how Lucius Malfoy dressed...I heard they were going to put him in some kind of Armani business suit. Kind of like with Lupin...his clothes were off in the movie, very muggleish.
Anyway, the above link is probably the most comprehensive website on Snape I've ever seen. |
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| azazello |
| Posted: Sat Jan 01, 2005 9:17 pm |
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Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Posts: 183
Location: Northern UK
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Well I am gobsmacked by the anna_kat's post. I think it is just brilliant - and says what I have been trying to say in my hamfisted, toe treading way, but better.
The other thing I'd like to say, is that the owner of the site mentioned in an earlier post. "designer potions" (a site no one who is interested in writing Snape should fail to bookmark) is none other than the very talented writer, Snapesforte, author of a brilliant SS/HG story called "Taking Over Me".
If you want to read a Snape flawlessly in canon, schlep over to Ashwinder and read Snapesforte's fic. It's like canon we just didn't look out for. Really. |
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