Sycophant Hex ~ View topic - The quality of the book itself

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< The Library ~ The quality of the book itself

mouseII

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:46 pm

Joined: 05 May 2005 Posts: 76

Hmm. I had never considered that explanation before, actually, and it's a really good one. Thanks for mentioning it, Gidget!

Ron has not really changed much, but I suppose temporary insanity and scarred arms are not quite of the same magnitude as getting hit with what was possibly a non-verbal Secumsempra spell. Mind you, Ron's personality didn't change much after he was nearly poisoned, either.

Lady Whitehart

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 10:26 pm

Joined: 20 Jul 2005 Posts: 38 Location: East Coast USA

Then again, as much as I like Ron, he is a bit clueless. I think Hermione best said it when she told him he had "the emotional range of a teaspoon". (It's in OotP somewhere -- but I lent out my copy, and can't properly site it.)

Yes, it was odd that Harry didn't grieve more for Sirius. He suffered his 'survivor's guilt' with Cedric, but Sirius's death should have effected him more. Unless it was just a delayed reaction that didn't hit him until AD's demise at the end. I really expected Harry and Snape to have some kind of a blow up early on, especially after the ending of OotP.

One thing I can say is that I have forgotten what it is like to be a teenager, and I'm OK with that. I just cringe at the thought that my kids will soon be going through all of that. Hope that Mother's Curse didn't take!

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gidget

Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 12:02 am

Joined: 26 Jul 2005 Posts: 13 Location: Canada

Well thnks for replying to my theory, lol. I have another one... well several actually, and since this is the 'general' book section, I'm gonna bust em out.

One- is the handwriting in the HBP's text Snape's or his mother's? It's mentioned quite early on that the handwriting is feminine (when Hermione says it could be a girl on page. 185 of the UK ed) and then they say the book is 50 yrs old and mention in the last chapter that it originally belonged to Snape's mom. I think, maybe she wrote the potion add-ons, and invented the spells.... Now I don't know what that means for Snape, but at least I take small comfort in the fact that he didn't invent spells the Deatheater's use everyday, lol. And I know it says Half-Blood Prince on the cover, but Snape could have added that when he recieved the book, from his Mom, presumably.

Two- and I know there's a thread on R.A.B already, I'm 99.8% sure it's Regulus Black, but a crazy thought crossed my mind the other day.. and when I say crazy I mean CRAZY... what if it's Rodolphus and Bellatrix?!! LMAO... just wanted to share my crazies with ya!

_________________
"There's an important kind of redemptive pattern to Snape"- JK Rowling Interview, The Connection, October 1999

Lady Whitehart

Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 2:26 pm

Joined: 20 Jul 2005 Posts: 38 Location: East Coast USA

Rodolphus and Bellatrix...That's not as crazy as it sounds. They are a power-hungry pair. The main thing that would contradict that is: "I know I will be dead...." P 609 American Ed. The Lestranges would be 'we'. Interesting thought though.

I bet Snape's Potions textbook was in the family for awhile. I just hope that Harry won't toss it simply because it was Snape's. Snape seems like he is rather 'DELETE' about his property. I can't believe that he would leave his books, even an old school text, lying around. Maybe he meant for it to be found?

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There is no point in arguing with an idiot, they will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

mouseII

Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 4:14 pm

Joined: 05 May 2005 Posts: 76

Or maybe it's a testament to his cleverness that he wanted preserved...just as Tom Riddle's diary was a testament to his cleverness that he wanted preserved.

On another site, I've been reading someone's theories about how Snape wants to be the next Dark Lord. I don't believe it, but she has got me starting to see the parallels...

Lady Whitehart

Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 4:33 pm

Joined: 20 Jul 2005 Posts: 38 Location: East Coast USA

Possible, but one would think he would learned from Riddle's mistake. Riddle's testament to his cleverness was discovered and destroyed. Then again, Snape was smart enough not to entrust it to Malfoy! No, I think he meant for it to be found. Do I have canon proof? Not really; it's just a hunch.

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azazello

Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 4:48 pm

Joined: 29 Nov 2004 Posts: 183 Location: Northern UK

The handwriting in the book is almost certainly Snape's. His handwriting is described as cramped and miniscule in book 5, when he sits his DADA Owl exam.

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Pace

Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:00 pm

Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 43 Location: Cologne (Germany)

I'm taking the liberty of adding my two cents in this, too.

I already said somewhere that I suspected Snape's father to have taken the 'Dursley-approach' to magic - this could be one of the reasons why Snape had to use the old textbook of his mother. Of course it could also be because, like the Weasleys, the Snapes were always short on money. Remember Ron telling Harry that he had Bill's old robes, Charlie's old wand and Percy's old rat (PS ie. SS, page 111, paperback, UK edition)? So I agree with gidget on this one; maybe it was the same for Snape and he got his mother's old school books - there could have already been some notes in those books that his mother made during her time at Hogwarts and Snape simply added his own.

As to Snape becoming the new Dark Lord - well, there are definitely a lot of parallels (between Harry and Voldemort, too) but my opinion is: if Snape would have WANTED a chance at world dominance or whatever ambitious goal Dark Lords in general have, he could have already done it. He has the skill, the determinition and the brains to pull it off. As he did not attempted to overthrow the Ministry (yet) I think we're 'safe' on that part.

Great idea for a fic though... 'Apprenticing with the Dark Lord' (can you apprentice with a Dark Lord? If yes - do you think the position is already filled?) or 'And on Sunday I'll take over the world'....

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Owlbait

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 1:23 pm

Joined: 01 Jul 2005 Posts: 92

Pace wrote:

Great idea for a fic though... 'Apprenticing with the Dark Lord' (can you apprentice with a Dark Lord? If yes - do you think the position is already filled?) or 'And on Sunday I'll take over the world'....

But, Brain, where are we going to find a duck and a hose at this hour?

-Liz

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gidget

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 4:22 pm

Joined: 26 Jul 2005 Posts: 13 Location: Canada

In regards to Harry discovering Snape's text, I've recently read a whole thory on a Harry/Hermione site which is convuluted at best but brings up an excellent point. In the second chapter of HBP it is specifically mentioned that Snape's house is filled with bookshelves and also that Wormtail is staying with him. What if Snape never planted the book/ left it in the class by accident at all? Wormtail could have taken the HBP potions book from Snape's house (because really seeing as how intensely private Snape is, who hear thinks he just left it in the classroom?) and purposely planted it on Voldemort's orders... Perhaps as a way to get to Harry. As to how Wormtail did this, and this part is all my speculation, I think Wormtail gave the book to Slughorn. I don't trust Slughorn, and Dumbledore mentions that he doesn't fully trust him either. Slug could be working for LV by giving Harry the textbook 'accidentaly'. Just my crazy ramblings...

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"There's an important kind of redemptive pattern to Snape"- JK Rowling Interview, The Connection, October 1999

Verity Brown

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:44 am

Joined: 14 Mar 2005 Posts: 150 Location: Midwest USA

gidget wrote:

In the second chapter of HBP it is specifically mentioned that Snape's house is filled with bookshelves and also that Wormtail is staying with him.

What an interesting idea! I must confess, I've really wondered about why Peter is staying with Snape. That hardly seems the most ideal of circumstances, for either of them. And Snape apparently does not have Peter entirely under control, since he's had problems with Peter eavesdropping on him before (during conversations with whom, I wonder?).

I didn't trust Slug myself, especially at first, but the incident where he finally gives Harry the true memory set a lot of my anxieties at rest. Still, it seems very, very odd indeed that Snape's old Potions book--which is a very dangerous book, and one that I can't imagine Snape just leaving lying around--would happen to be handed out to Harry Potter, of all people.

Verity

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I still have implicit faith in Severus Snape. Now more than ever.

gidget

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:26 am

Joined: 26 Jul 2005 Posts: 13 Location: Canada

Verity Brown wrote:

I didn't trust Slug myself, especially at first, but the incident where he finally gives Harry the true memory set a lot of my anxieties at rest. Still, it seems very, very odd indeed that Snape's old Potions book--which is a very dangerous book, and one that I can't imagine Snape just leaving lying around--would happen to be handed out to Harry Potter, of all people.

Verity

I still didn't trust Slug after that memory. I might have even trusted him less... I mean why would he give that information ( the Horcruxes) out to a student? Even if he was somehow coerced into telling Riddle, Slug altered that memory himself. you think if he was trustworthy he would have told DD straight away, but he kept it to himself... He must have suspected Riddle intended to put it to use! He (Slug) was just too focused on power for me... obsession with power is what would lead one to the DeathEaters and LV isn't it?

_________________
"There's an important kind of redemptive pattern to Snape"- JK Rowling Interview, The Connection, October 1999

mouseII

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:40 am

Joined: 05 May 2005 Posts: 76

I liked Slughorn; HBP seemed to be the first book where we saw a Slytherin portrayed as something other than obviously (to Harry at least) evil. Slughorn wasn't a particularly nice guy, but he didn't seem like a bad guy to me either - more of a garden-variety yahoo who doesn't ever think about how his actions impact the world. There are plenty of people like that - they're not evil by any stretch, but they don't really think about the consequences of their actions, and sometimes unwittingly do great and small evils because of it. It's like buying a pair of sneakers that were made in a sweatshop, without realising that (or even wondering if) they were made in a sweatshop - you're contributing to an evil, without personally being particularly evil.

I tend to think that Slughorn altered the memory out of a fear of persecution (by the Ministry at worst, and by a sort of "shunning" of him by his former star pupils at least) and probably also out of genuine shame (which is good, in that it implies he does have a conscience).

I think Slughorn told Tom Riddle about the horcruces out of misplaced ambition: Slughorn's prestige comes from his "Slug club", and Riddle probably looked to be the brightest star he'd ever had the good fortune to "discover" - plus Riddle softened him up with a treat/bribe just before asking him about the horcruces, and Slughorn does have a distinct weakness for treats. So Riddle asks the question, and Slughorn answers it because coddling these star students is what he does, and is how he obtains his (reflected) prestige.

By the end of the conversation, I thought that Slughorn was getting distinctly nervous about Riddle's questions, and interpreted that to be his conscience belatedly waving a red flag at him over the brick wall of his ambition.

I would characterise Slughorn as perhaps criminally thoughtless, but not evil - not a bad guy, in the sense that Tom Riddle was a bad guy.

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Verity Brown

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:43 am

Joined: 14 Mar 2005 Posts: 150 Location: Midwest USA

gidget wrote:

I guess the way I saw it was that Slug probably gave that information to Riddle without thinking too hard about the consequences. How was he to know ahead of time that Riddle would actually want to use it? Of course, he is guilty for having kept quiet about it--because surely after that conversation, he would have had reason to fear that Riddle might actually do so. But I felt that Slug hid it because it really wasn't something he should have told a student about--it was a bad choice, as he realized after the fact--and even someone less concerned with image than he is might feel horrible about revealing to anyone the guilty secret that it was he who gave Riddle the info that helped set him on the path to becoming a near-immortal Dark Lord.

I didn't see Slug being concerned with power so much as he is with influence and connections. He likes the perks that come to him from knowing the powerful and the talented. I don't think he'd be nearly as happy being powerful himself as he is just sitting back and basking in the reflected glory.

Verity

_________________
I still have implicit faith in Severus Snape. Now more than ever.

gidget

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:56 am

Joined: 26 Jul 2005 Posts: 13 Location: Canada

Well, Mouse and Verity, you've both given me plenty to think about! I don't think Slug is evil per say, I just don't trust him... Just too much conviently happens around him. I can see how when Riddle first questioned Slug he couldn't have known what he'd ask. And I guess expecting him to come forward with the information would be Gryffindor expectations.... him being a Slytherin I can totally see how he would keep it to himself until an oppertune time. Anybody else wonder WHY Dumbledore made Harry get that memory in the first place? Why didn't he just get it himself? Unless DD knew Harry would use the felix felicias ( I'm sure I butchered the spelling of that!)

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"There's an important kind of redemptive pattern to Snape"- JK Rowling Interview, The Connection, October 1999

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