Sycophant Hex ~ View topic - Pensive question

Author

Message

< The Library ~ Pensive question

anita blake

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 8:53 am

Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 11

I have a theory. Couldn't Harry check Dumbledor's pensive for any memories re: Snape? And I think Harry should get that book from the room of requirement, it may prove useful to know every spell that Snape has created.

And perhaps Snape has his own pensive? I'd think he'd store information in there that he'd like to keep from Voldemort. For example, if he really could be trusted by and was following Dumbledore, and while he was feeding information to the Order, he might put memories of those actions in a pensive so that Voldemort would not know about them.

I think that somewhere there's a way that Harry can learn how Dumbledore came to trust Snape. And also, could Harry not now speak to Dumbledore's portrait in the Headmaster office?

And one final question. Is Fawkes dead as well? I'm going to re-read again. I so don't like the Snape to be a traitor to Dumbledore. He can be nasty and not nice, but not a traitor!

Anyone else have a Pensive or Portrait theory?

Iseult

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 9:28 am

Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Posts: 20 Location: Newcastle, Australia

I certainly think this is a possibility. However, if Dumbledore doesn't want Harry getting them he will either hide or destroy them.
Snape (if he is working with Dumbledore) may have agreed to be a sacrifical lamb as Dumbledore has. I have little divination ability but I do not forsee an Order of Merlin in Snape's future. Death perhaps or incarceration for his crimes. Otherwise, he has thrown in his lot with the DE and hopes they will be victorious.

Two Methyloctane

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 2:54 pm

Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 96 Location: Calgary, Canada

For the Occlumency lessons in OotP, (if my memory serves me correctly) didn't Dumbledore lend his Pensieve to Snape to store his bad memories?

Unless Snape had acquired one since then, it doesn't seem as if he has his own Pensieve.

Kherezae

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:10 am

Joined: 16 Jul 2005 Posts: 29 Location: Maryland

We don't actually know if Dumbledore lent Snape his Pensieve, do we? Harry just assumed. Of course, I may recall Dumbles confirming it in HBP x_x; I'm so braindead, I think I'm due for my reread as well.

Anyway, something that has confused me about the Pensieves is how you're supposed to take the memory out of your mind and put it in the Pensieve. For one thing, how would you remember what memories you're missing because they're in the Pensieve? For another... Slughorn still had pieces of the memory he gave Dumbledore. He'd given Dumbledore an edited version, but parts were true. Wouldn't he not remember those parts, then?

SevsAngel

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:44 am

Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 10 Location: Grissom's Bed

Anybody know if you can make up a memory? And will the pensieve show it properly if it is fabricated?

That is the only way I think Snape could prove his innocence...(if he is innocent)

_________________
Snape only did it on Dumbledores orders!

"Only the dead have seen the end of war" - Plato

Pace

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:31 pm

Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 43 Location: Cologne (Germany)

Theorethically it is possible to make up and completely alter true memories. We do it all the time, actually. Situtations we don't want to remember the way they were because they are too emberassing or because we are ashamed of our own actions, memories like those are often altered, although unconsciously. It's the kind of memory were your best friend tells you didn't slap that guy who made obscene remarks about you in front of the whole class although you (or in this case I) are convinced you did. Why? Because you should have and because you feel it was a mistake not to. (The whole thing ends with a fight between you and your best friend and you lying awake late in the night, unable to sleep because it bothers you so much and an hour before sunrise you realize: damn, she was right!)

As for the extracting of memories: Snape placed his wand's tip at his temple and then slowly drew it away. Clinging to it were silvery whisps that he placed in the pensieve. Those were his memories. Dumbledore did the same in GOF, I think. But how you remember a memory you place in the pensieve - no clue.

_________________
If it's not chocolate I'm not interested.

deus-ex-maria

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:51 pm

Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 12

Wouldn't you remember putting memories into a Pensieve?

On Snape, I don't see him as much of the 'sacrificial lamb' type. He's too big on titles and status to be a martyr, especially an unknown one.

Two Methyloctane

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:12 am

Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 96 Location: Calgary, Canada

I've always sort of assumed a Pensieve is like a filing cabinet. You put your memories in it, and a label is put on the memory in your mind. You know it's there, and you know the basics of what it is, but for the details you need to go back to the Pensieve.

Does that make any sense?

_________________
**In Snape We Trust**
"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire

Kherezae

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 1:25 am

Joined: 16 Jul 2005 Posts: 29 Location: Maryland

Makes sense to me... a filing cabinet XD Yes. Though I still don't exactly understand how Slughorn still had the parts of that memory that he hadn't edited the first time -- the parts that were the same in both versions of the memory.

Two Methyloctane

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 1:43 am

Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 96 Location: Calgary, Canada

Unless Slughorn used a Pensieve and/or magic to copy the memory and alter it to give to Dumbledore, and kept the original...

Downloads the memory, prints and uses the alteration, but keeps the original on the hard disk in case he needs it again... I mean, if you can alter memories without the use of Obliterate, you should be able to copy it...

How can you tell I'm a geek? Wink

_________________
**In Snape We Trust**
"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire

Kherezae

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:49 am

Joined: 16 Jul 2005 Posts: 29 Location: Maryland

Ha, totally... the computerized brain... I need a Pensieve ._.

anita blake

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 8:12 am

Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 11

[quote="deus-ex-maria"]Wouldn't you remember putting memories into a Pensieve?quote]

I don't think you would remember. You gotta stick yer head back into the pensive to retrieve the memories, no? If you think about all the stuff you know about yourself, all your memories, all the t.v. shows you've ever seen, all the books you've read, all the people you've barely glanced at in an airport, all the famous people you've read about/seen in a movie/etc., everything you've ever done, all your family members, and so on, and so on, I think it would be entirely plausable to forget what memories you put in a pensive. I mean, can you remember everything in your entire memory at all times? (babble, babble, babble, boy do I go on. . .)

Plus Snape put his worst memory in the pensive so that Harry would not accidently learn of it during the occlumency lesson. If he remembered that he put it in there, then Harry might still have extracted it from Snape's mind. I think the pensive is used to forget stuff that's painful or maybe unnecessary, or even for happy memories one might want to relive later.

Two Methyloctane

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:50 pm

Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 96 Location: Calgary, Canada

But then how would Dumbledore remember which of his memories he put into the Pensieve if there's no imprint in the brain?

I think memory extraction leaves behind an imprint of the memory, but the memory itself goes into the Pensieve. That way, you still remember that you had the memory, you just can't access the details of the memory because it's in the Pensieve.

_________________
**In Snape We Trust**
"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire

anita blake

Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 5:42 am

Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 11

okay, I can go with that. Kinda like when you lose your car keys. You KNOW you brought them in the house, but where are they? Then finally, you find them, and when you do, you remember when/why/how you came to leave them where you did.

celisnebula

Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 2:17 pm

Joined: 31 Dec 2004 Posts: 312 Location: USA

Two Methyloctane wrote:

I think memory extraction leaves behind an imprint of the memory, but the memory itself goes into the Pensieve. That way, you still remember that you had the memory, you just can't access the details of the memory because it's in the Pensieve.

Actually, I think it would be the opposit. You retain the actually memory, but the pensive records an imprint of the memory. Sort of like a fax... you retain the original, but the exact duplicate (the copy) is sent on to where you need it to go.

This would explain why Slugehorn still retained his memory of Riddle asking about the Horcruxes, and possibly why people are able to edit the memory before it is seen in a pensive.

And perhaps, as in Snape's case in OotP, when he is trying to sheild things from Harry, the pensive can retain all of the memory you want to erase from your head and leave you with just a post it note memory so you can protect it. Still working on the theory of why that happens...

_________________
Celis~~~
And they say we're crazy
http://www.livejournal.com/users/celisnebula/

All times are GMT

View next topic View previous topic Page 1 of 2 Goto page 1, 2 Next Sycophant Hex Forum Index ~ The Library

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum