Sycophant Hex ~ View topic - Has anyone else finished the book????

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< The Library ~ Has anyone else finished the book????

Verity Brown

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:07 pm

Joined: 14 Mar 2005 Posts: 150 Location: Midwest USA

I am going quite insane not being able to talk about this! This book is going to have *huge* implications for Occlumency and Ashwinder. Is anyone out there???

Verity
(who still has implicit faith in Severus Snape)

_________________
I still have implicit faith in Severus Snape. Now more than ever.

emeraldthorn

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:56 pm

Joined: 16 Jul 2005 Posts: 2

No kidding! The world is going to be in uproar... I mean, I couldn't believe it when it happened. What does this mean for the SS-verse? And, what's more, what does the lack of a school mean for the ff verse mean for everyone?

Verity Brown

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 5:05 pm

Joined: 14 Mar 2005 Posts: 150 Location: Midwest USA

I think the future of the SS-verse depends on how many SS-lovers can continue to believe (as I do) that Snape is a good guy. I have good reasons to think so, too. But I won't pull out my proof until the discussion develops a little more.

Verity

_________________
I still have implicit faith in Severus Snape. Now more than ever.

emeraldthorn

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 5:10 pm

Joined: 16 Jul 2005 Posts: 2

No, I believe with you. There's definetly more too this than the average Snape-hater will see, and I suspect most people will miss half the point and the seriousness of the vow. But I do admit, that while I still believe Snape's core is good, that I think much more of him is dark than I suspected before.

Verity Brown

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 5:21 pm

Joined: 14 Mar 2005 Posts: 150 Location: Midwest USA

I've always thought that Severus Snape must be pretty dang dark in spots. He *was* (and now must again pretend to be) a Death Eater, after all. A lot of SS-lovers treat that bit of information as if it meant the same thing as "I used to belong to the Communist Party." :~P

I dunno if you've read my story "A Merciless Affection," but I don't let anyone getting away with thinking of his past like that.

Verity

_________________
I still have implicit faith in Severus Snape. Now more than ever.

azazello

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 6:22 pm

Joined: 29 Nov 2004 Posts: 183 Location: Northern UK

This is the last call for passengers to embark on the SS Heavy Denial.

I've read the book and am on a reread.

Essentially, my own personal jury is out at present. Fanon Snape is utterly dead - he's a rather vulgar petty little man in canon, now. Making up silly titles for himself and whatnot.

Is he redeemable? yes, but it is too early to tell. My own fanon foundered and sunk in chapter 2 of the new book. All MLC fics are hereby canon shafted (now that's an unexpectedly good spin off of this book).

The death of Snape Manor and posh rich Snape is another price I will happily pay (in wrecked fanfic). Grotty old Spinners End, near Manchester at a guess (the dodgy end), and back to back working class Muggle housing. Preens at the death of all snobfic out there. And the only title he has is a childish made up one. Yay!

I was right about his spying in the Hogshead, wrong about him being at Hogwarts as Voldemort's spy. Wrong about his being pureblooded (I thought he was). Do I mind? No, the book was exciting and 1,000,000 times better than fanfic. Whoda thought it?

Right now, I would kill for time travel so that I could go forward and read book 7.

_________________
Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony ~ Monty Python and the Holy Grail

Verity Brown

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 6:36 pm

Joined: 14 Mar 2005 Posts: 150 Location: Midwest USA

azazello wrote:

Essentially, my own personal jury is out at present. Fanon Snape is utterly dead - he's a rather vulgar petty little man in canon, now. Making up silly titles for himself and whatnot.

Because of something he did as a *child*?

Quote:

Is he redeemable? yes, but it is too early to tell. My own fanon foundered and sunk in chapter 2 of the new book. All MLC fics are hereby canon shafted (now that's an unexpectedly good spin off of this book).

I am actually more sure now of his position than I ever was before. All that ambiguity was completely unnecessary if he's not loyal to Dumbledore.

Quote:

The death of Snape Manor and posh rich Snape is another price I will happily pay (in wrecked fanfic). Grotty old Spinners End, near Manchester at a guess (the dodgy end), and back to back working class Muggle housing. Preens at the death of all snobfic out there. And the only title he has is a childish made up one. Yay!

I've never believed in Snape Manor. But I do mourn the death of my own Knockturn Alley spin on his background.

Quote:

I was right about his spying in the Hogshead, wrong about him being at Hogwarts as Voldemort's spy. Wrong about his being pureblooded (I thought he was). Do I mind? No, the book was exciting and 1,000,000 times better than fanfic. Whoda thought it?

What do you mean "wrong about him being at Hogwarts as Voldemort's spy"? Isn't that exactly what he told Bella? I

Quote:

Right now, I would kill for time travel so that I could go forward and read book 7.

It is pure torture for SS-fans to be left as we are.

Verity

_________________
I still have implicit faith in Severus Snape. Now more than ever.

oak

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:03 pm

Joined: 16 Jul 2005 Posts: 1

I still believe that Snape is, at the very least, loyal to Dumbledore. Words like good and bad are much to simple to be used in regard to people. I think better of Snape than Harry does and I find it hard to discount Dumbledore's trust of him. However, I think that Rowling may not feel the same way. She consistently portrays Slytherins as the weakest, meanest, or dumbest characters.

On another note, does anyone think it's strange that a school that has stood for a thousand years is going to close its doors because of the death of one Headmaster, no matter how extraordinary?

Celeste

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:06 pm

Joined: 16 Jul 2005 Posts: 5

Holy crap. Shocked

I feel as if someone (Snape) went and slammed my head against a brick wall.

I'd give a more in-depth discussion of what I think, but I don't want to spoil anybody.

Just... holy crap. I really want to believe there's a good reason for what he did, but I'm not certain if anything but a sacrifice on Snape's part in book 7 can redeem him for it.

Verity Brown

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:15 pm

Joined: 14 Mar 2005 Posts: 150 Location: Midwest USA

Celeste wrote:

I'd give a more in-depth discussion of what I think, but I don't want to spoil anybody.

I think the point of this thread is to be able to post spoilers. I will soon post my "Why Snape Is Not Evil" analysis. Stay tuned.

Verity

_________________
I still have implicit faith in Severus Snape. Now more than ever.

Max

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:45 pm

Joined: 06 Jan 2005 Posts: 17 Location: Germany

oak wrote:

I still believe that Snape is, at the very least, loyal to Dumbledore.

Well, perhaps it's only me (who never liked Snape much), but killing someone doesn't look like an expression of "loyality" to me. I think peoople should face the fact that JKR as the author of the saga isn't a fan of Snape and obviously doesn't want to show him as a "good guy".

Kherezae

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:13 am

Joined: 16 Jul 2005 Posts: 29 Location: Maryland

Hm. I still think Snape's good, as well. Either that, or mouse's 'One by One' fic seriously has its merits. Ha.

Since when has Dumbledore been wrong about people, after all? Voldemort is supposed to be the world's greatest Legilmens; wouldn't he have the Occlumency to match? But he never fooled Dumbledore -- not for an instant. I'm not sure Snape being an Occlumens is a good 'he fooled Dumbledore' excuse. I mean, Dumbles wasn't stupid. Just because he couldn't necessarily delve into Snape's mind doesn't mean he couldn't judge on Snape's actions and attitude. Harry thinks he simply believed Snape because of Snape's 'I didn't know he'd kill James and Lily, I never meant that' story, but Dumbledore had eyes. Even if he believed Snape back then, he could clearly see Snape passed the grudge with James onto Harry, and I don't see him treating Harry the way he did if he was honestly sorry about James and Lily's death -- or at least if he was trying to fool Dumbledore into thinking so. I think there's got to be much more to it.

I think my other two big reasons are the major foreshadowing of Snape possibly being evil at the very beginning of the book. Usually twist endings like Snape turning out evil aren't foreshadowed so obviously in JKR's books. There are only tiny, barely noticeable hints that are blaringly obvious in retrospect.

Also, why would Snape barge in and kill Dumbledore before giving Draco the chance to do it? I don't think he's in it for the glory, as Draco was accusing him. I think it was more than just the Vow. He wasn't supposed to take over Draco's task unless Draco was in mortal danger for not being able to do it.

I don't see JKR as one to stereotype, either. We haven't seen any Slytherins who aren't at least partly despicable, but we don't get to see much of Slytherin House, either. Slughorn had his petty character flaws like ignoring students (like Ron) who he didn't think were going to be somebody, but overall he's not evil. Draco showed himself to actually have some redeeming qualities, though he's still not the nicest of people. We've mostly seen Slytherin's bad side. I don't think JKR would make Snape evil just because she's unforgiving toward her 'evil' House or something.

Forgive me for being fairly random...

aphrodeia

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 1:02 am

Moderator Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 46

I think it's fair to say that this book presented more questions than answers. I'm withholding judgement, for the most part, being entirely unsure of what twists are still to come.

It's easy to take this book at face value, forgetting that JKR is one crafty lady. On the other hand, it's easy to read too deeply into it, forgetting that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. So much yet to be seen... and only two more years, give or take, to find out what it is. Wink

Just the same, this book is BRILLIANT, and I can't wait to see the fanfic that comes of it.

Kherezae

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 1:44 am

Joined: 16 Jul 2005 Posts: 29 Location: Maryland

Oh, fanfic... -goes starry eyed-

QIK

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 3:11 am

Joined: 14 May 2005 Posts: 11 Location: Berlin, Germany

I am such an arsehole. Sitting here and reading this stuff before the book when I should have known better. Now I spoiled it all for me and I can blame nobody, just my own curiousity which isn't even satisfied and it's sunday and the stores are closed and money is short.

Like I said, I should have known better. *off to weeping*

Just a general opinion of mine: I never actually considered Snape good, I just wanted to believe that he was, or is, cause I still want to believe it. And even with only my (still) foggy imagination of the events I whink that makes good stuff for fanfic, twisty but challenging.

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