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< Personae ~ Hermione Granger |
| deianaera |
 Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:14 am |
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Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 9
Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA
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When it comes to Hermione's character, the most interesting analysis I've come across is on Red Hen - http://www.redhen-publications.com/HermioneSue.html.
Direct quote - "This is definitely not the sweet, intellectual, overly well-socialized, 'good-girl' who is impersonating her in a fanfic near you. Canon Hermione, for all her excellent potential, once examined closely comes across as an extremely brittle young woman, with a number of highly distressing traits."
Basic synopsis of their article - Hermione is severely lacking in social skills and wants desperately to be admired.
Check it out if you're interested.
To me, Hermione is an extremely bright child who was taught very early on that her mind is the only thing of value she has to offer anyone. Having the "smart one" label warped her perception of herself - this is all she was probably are known for before she entered Hogwarts. Especially with two career-focused parents (check my canon on this, I could be incorrect) who run their own dentistry clinic. They probably left her alone as long as she was their bright, precocious child. Her coming up witchy probably served to alienate her further from her parents, who continue using the same yardstick of grades on paper to measure how good she is.
Being the "smart one" in school probably isolated her from her classmates in school. Check the scenario (and before azazello jumps all over this - I know everything here is supposition, without any direct canon evidence to back it up) - The teacher calls on her because she knows the answers and her classmates thinks she's the teacher's pet and hate her guts for it. So, she dives further into books - especially the textbooks, because that makes her parents "love" her more (i.e. pay attention to her) and the teachers like her more. Insert reinforcement of isolationist cycle here. This lack of peer interaction means Hermione doesn't have the coping skills of most kids develop. We know she has a temper. The mechanisms for expressing it aren't in place, though. She may have developed a good punch because she fought in school.
So, to Hermione, the only thing she has to offer of worth to anyone is her book-smarts. She lives up to it as much as she can. She doesn't get to be the pretty one, so she doesn't bother to try (for example, the Yule Ball - before and after). She doesn't get to be popular, so again, she doesn't even try. She tries to be helpful in her own way, but lacking those pesky social skills she botches it rather badly. Give her a textbook or a logical, rational problem, and she can handle it, no problem. Make her deal with a flesh and blood person on an emotional basis and watch the train wreck occur (her analysis of Cho's actions on Valentine's Day). Harry and Ron are her friends, yes, but it is a friendship built on need - Hermione needs someone to like her and Harry and Ron need her mind (ex: the numerous times she has helped them complete homework assignments, loaned her notes, etc.).
Is she mentally intelligent? Hell, yeah. Is she emotionally intelligent? Absolutely not. She lacks the frame of reference for it. Hermione, in her own way, is as dysfunctional in her relationships as Snape. Her "relationship" with Victor Krum only works because he is far, far away from her. She doesn't have to deal with him personally; she only has to write him. She fills a need for Harry and Ron. Others avoid her or go along with her because it is easier than dealing with her temper (SPEW).
As for Hermione in the future, I'm going to reference the Red Hen article again:
"In Book 4 Ron spent half of the first term mad at Harry, and in Book 5 Harry spent most of the year mad at the world and taking it out on both Hermione and Ron. Who didn't much appreciate it. Harry has finally entered his "bad patch" (and if his developmental train is on the same schedule as Ron's, he won't be emerging from that tunnel before the middle of Book 6). Ron, by contrast, seems to finally be beginning to emerge from the other end of his.
Isn't she about due?"
I think this is dead on assessment of Hermione in the near (book 6) future. Hermione, who has one hell of a temper, is coming due for her breakdown. We saw hints of it in PoA. The beating she took at the end of OotP probably kicked it up a notch. I hope that the scene in MoM (OotP, pg. 792, US version) where she goes flying into the bookshelf and has a load of heavy books dumped on her is some nice, subtle foreshadowing. For the first time, she comes close to death (I don't count the petrification in CoS, because she knew that they would be able to revive her). She got her ass handed to her in her first real encounter with Death Eaters. Book smarts aren't going to cut it anymore.
So what is she going to do next? With my analysis, I say some temper-fueled, out-and-out rebellion is coming due. Hopefully, Hermione will emerge a better person for it. |
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It's really hard to be a dark lord of terror when your eyebrows are on fire. |
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| Zia |
| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:26 am |
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Joined: 29 Apr 2005
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Location: Den Haag
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When stumbling across this forum, I saw it is a bit dead, but the topics really interest me, so I think I start repying any way  .
One of the things that hugely surprises me is Hermione getting labelled insecure or even, in the post above, brittle (The red hen article is seems not to be available at the moment so I cannot comment on that). That is not my view on her at all. She has insecurities, sure, who doesn't expecially as a teenager. But when I look at her actions, I cannot see a basically insecure person there. Especially when compared to insecurity personified in Neville Longbottom.
She is an overachiever and a perfectionist: true, but why would there be insecurity as the basis for this? Maybe, just maybe she really, really likes to be as good as she can be. There is no canon to support her parents are career focussed people who were only intersted in her doing well at school and taking no other interest in her at all. She might just as easily have parents who encouraged her to make the most of herself, raising her to believe that, with her brains, she can reach anything she wants if she works for it, and that being a woman is no drawback at all to be excellent. Her mother might be an very good role model for an ambitious young witch. Having a career and being a warm, loving, encouraging mother are not mutually exclusive.
She wants to be acknowledged, true. But so does Harry, and so does Ron. All three of them want to be seen for who they really are, all three are insecure at points. Yet the only one who apparently has an insecure personality instead of insecurities is Hermione  .
I've seen nowhere that being the smart one isolates her from her classmates except for the first book. After that she seems to have found her place as far as we can see through Harry's eyes. I also don't see any lack of peer interaction, or her not having coping skills. Unless peer interaction means as a girl she has to have girl friends of the Lavender and Parvati type. As for the rest, about being the smart one, not being pretty so not trying etc. there are quite a lot of women, and even teenage girls who are just not that interested in clothes, being pretty, being in the 'populair' group and really, truly love books and learning. When Hermione wants to be pretty, she manages quite all right. It is just not such a big deal to her, and why should it be?
What I'm wondering at is, in how far are all these analyses of the needy, insecure, only book smart, not really having a true friendship with the boys Hermione based on the fact that Hermione is a girl? If she were a boy, would the facts that she is not interested in looks, clothes or swooning over Trelawny (or the male equivalent of all that) be used as reasons to label her insecure? Would her intereaction with the boys, especially going into danger with them time and time again been overlooked to say they only want her for her homework skills? Would the facts that she is a perfectionist and an overachiever be seen as making up for the underlaying insecurity that surely must be there? I highly doubt it.
My opinion on Hermione is that she is a strong, independent child who is growing up into a strong independent young woman. What I especially like about her is belief in doing what is right. She nags to the boys about school rules, but as I see it, that is because she believes that obeying those rules is the right thing to do. When the rules conflict with that, she has no trouble going against them, as we can see in from the first book when she is one of the three going after the stone.
Another example I love is the firebolt incident in the PoA, where she goes against peer pressure to tell McGonnagal about the broom and her idea it might be from Sirius Black. Hermione can tell the boys what she thinks, and why she thinks the broom is dangerous, but they are too blinded by it being a firebolt to use common sense. So she does what in her opinion is right, and goes to someone who can stop Harry from using the broom before it is properly tested for safety. Why: because to her Harry's life is more important to her than his and Rons good opinion of her.
And locking Rita Skeeter in a jar just might be a tad illegal.
The article in the Quibbler is a stroke of genius, which I truly enjoyed. But then again, I love the Hermione of book five for her strongminded independent actions. Not perfect, she certainly makes mistakes, but then again, she is a sixteen year old girl and they are generally too young and inexperienced to be flawless at guerilla warfare.
As for her genius: JKR calls her borderlinge genius at points , so we may safely assume she is intelligent. Quote: http://www.quick-quote-quill.org/articles/1999/1099-connectiontransc.html |
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| anna_kat |
| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 12:16 pm |
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Joined: 01 Jan 2005
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Zia wrote: When stumbling across this forum, I saw it is a bit dead, but the topics really interest me, so I think I start repying any way....
One of the things that hugely surprises me is Hermione getting labelled insecure or even, in the post above, brittle
That's what I like about this forum. Discussions can go on for months. Every other week someone adds a comment and it expands from there - or not.
You've hit the nail on the head. Of course Hermione is not insecure or brittle. She is very sure of herself, she is very pro-active and she is very much her own person. She makes mistakes and errors in judgement, but she is by no means an insecure little wallflower trailing behind her famous friend.
That so many love to portray her as insecure and borderline self-destructive is in parts pure projection, in parts a direct reflection on popular tv shows and movies, and in parts a cultural misunderstanding.
There aren't many teenage books, films or tv shows that encourage girls to be bookish and have faith in themselves. The bookish girl usually is the lonely one, who is ridiculed by her peers until someone takes pity on her and makes her over. The same applies to boys actually. The bright boy is the geek, who gets on everyone's nerves.
Hermione does not bow to convention and I have a feeling that the irritiation with a girl who has friends and lots of adventures not despite but because she is bright and bossy, make it difficult to look at who she actually is and what she does.
One of the main themes of the HP books is that knowledge is vital. As readers, we see knowledge in action and not just any knowledge but the knowledge Hermione accumulates. Her knowledge aka her skill with the blue fire helps distract Quirell enough for Snape to save Harry. Her knowledge helps the three of them against the ensnaring plant, it helps Harry learn the accio spell so he accio his broomstick and get a Dragon's egg, and so on.
When knowledge is withheld, people are vulnerable, they are being taken advantage of and preyed upon. This is a major theme of the books. Hermione takes it upon her to make sure that she has the knowledge she needs. It explains her wish to cramp as many classes into her schedule as she possibly can. It explains why she asks McGonagall to examine Harry's broom, despite the fallout her action creates. Hermione wants to know. She does not want to stand by and let fate decide her fate, or that of her friends.
Sorry, I didn't mean to go on a tangent. It only happens when discussing Hermione, Harry or Snape. |
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| deianaera |
| Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 5:52 am |
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Joined: 25 Mar 2005
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Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA
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Zia wrote: One of the things that hugely surprises me is Hermione getting labelled insecure or even, in the post above, brittle
Brittle? That's my personal theory - that she is nowhere as together or as secure as we think she it. I really do have my fingers corssed that she'll fall apart for while in book 6.
As for insecure? That one I'll back up. JKR has said in several interviews that Hermione is insecure.
JKR interview examples (by no means comprehensive):
"Happy ending, and that's for beginners." The Herald, 24 June 1997
Quote: Most of the characters are pure caricature but Rowling admits Harry's clever-clogs classmate, Hermione, is a self portrait. "She's very like I was at 11 - on the surface a proper little smart ass but underneath quite insecure."
"Harry Potter Charms a Nation." Eletronic Telegraph, 25 July 1998
Quote: Rowling went to her local comprehensive, where she was "a snotty, swotty little kid and very insecure". Hermione, a character in her books, is closely modelled on herself. "She is a caricature of me: I was neither as bright nor as annoying as Hermione. At least, I hope I wasn't, because I would have deserved drowning at birth.
"Essay: A Conversation with J.K. Rowling; A Good Scare," Time Magazine, October, 30, 2000
Quote: They see her as someone who is not vulnerable, but I see her as someone who does have quite a lot of vulnerability in her personality.
Further, her behavior in the books to date does not strike me as someone who has a strong sense of self. Again, IMO, it seems like being the brain is all she appears to be good for. Like it or not, that does shape your perceptions of yourself and your relationships with others.
Sorry about the Red Hen link - the period I used at the end of the sentence disabled it.
Try it now:
http://www.redhen-publications.com/HermioneSue.html
later days
deianaera |
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"As for the rest of the rules, well, the rest of the rules are Russian and complicated..."
Rollerball
It's really hard to be a dark lord of terror when your eyebrows are on fire. |
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| anna_kat |
| Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 9:55 am |
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Joined: 01 Jan 2005
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deianaera wrote: JKR has said in several interviews that Hermione is insecure.
She said that about 11-year old Hermione. She also said that by book Hermione had losened up and was willing to break rules for her convictions. That is not, normally, what insecure girls would do.
deianaera wrote: Further, her behavior in the books to date does not strike me as someone who has a strong sense of self.
I view her differently but I might be missing something. Can you give an example? |
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| pipedreamer |
| Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 8:50 pm |
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Joined: 28 Apr 2005
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Location: Newcastle, UK
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What seems to be the difficulty for me is the fact that we are meant to stick to Hermione's canon character when any fic that takes place after book 5 will be basing her character on a canon not yet written. I know this sounds daft and a little obvious, but I think that how OOC Hermione goes is entirely open to interpretation. I would say that if, from what we know of Hermione from the past 5 books may then follow logically to the way Hermione is portrayed in a fanfic, then that would, IMHO, be entirely acceptable. An example (taken from an earlier post), a Hermione who suddenly started spouting Heidegger and Nitezche would be a little too OOC.
However, bear in mind also that everything we know of Hermione is essentially learned from Harry's POV. Of course we can make our own suppositions from this, but what I love about JKR's writing style is that it's like looking into a Penseive containing Harry's life memories (uh-oh, I think I just hatched a plot bunny...). We don't see what Harry doesn't. Because all Harry sees is Hermione's "book smarts" doesn't mean that's all she ever does. I'm not suggesting for one moment she actually does read Heidegger and Nietzsche in her spare time, but not all her life is spent at study. So a Hermione who knows far more than what can reasonably be learned in books and at school would also be a perfectly acceptable canon portrayal.
Hermione doesn't just have the drive to prove herself, although I think that's part of her psychological make-up. She isn't just obsessed with learning in order to get top grades...if we hark back to the very first Hogwarts Express journey, she is fascinated with learning everything about the Wizarding World, and then in later books about her own Muggle World from a Wizarding perspective. She thirsts for knowledge above all else, and not just to prove herself, but because she is in this way an intellectual. An intellectual is not only someone who can spout philosophy etc ad nauseum, but one who dedicates their life to learning all there is to know. That's our Hermione!
Well that's my contribution for now. I hope you don't think I'm trying to dictate what should and shouldn't be, but we all need to bear in mind that there are sides to Hermione we haven't seen, and so have to use our imagination for. That's not OOC, that's logical following on from previous knowledge  |
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| JackieJLH |
| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 6:42 pm |
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One things I've noticed throughtout these posts is that people often refer to Hermione as being unable to 'fit it', and not really being popular among her peers, simply because she has only 2 or 3 close friends.
Most sixteen year olds only have 2 or 3 close friends. Some only have one. It is a rare teen who can fit into every group, who can make friends with anyone, and ususally they aren't truly close to with all of these friends, but merely good acquaintances.
I think that Hermione may be a bit insecure at times, but that is not necessarily a fault. Once again, she's sixteen. I have never met a sixteen year old girl, or boy for that matter, that didn't have times when they were completely insecure about themselves.
Hermione, to me, seems like a relatively well adjusted teenager. She has a few good friends - and for as much as it seems like they only use her for her intelligence, they have a close, trusting bond between them. She strives to learn, because learning seems to be her favorite pasttime - much like Harry strives to excel in Quidditch, Fred and George in pranks, and Ron in...chess, I guess...
Anyway...sometimes, to me, it seems that a lot of people expect Hermione, as well as most of the other canon students, to act much more adult than they ever could if they are truly fifteen and sixteen years old. They will do stupid things, they will throw tantrums, they will be selfish, they will be mean and heartless sometimes...that's being a teenager. And there will be insecurities, friendships and enemies, and a lot of time trying to figure out who they are in whatever way they can.
To me, Hermione is a very intelligent, school-oriented, but relatively normal teenager, who only seems to be insecure and lonely because many readers expect her to act 25, not 16.
Jackie |
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I once had a real life. Then I discovered Harry Potter. Then I discovered Harry Potter on the internet... *shrug* Real life is overrated anyway. |
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| celeritas |
| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 9:41 pm |
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Joined: 01 Jul 2005
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I have to admit that I have never really thought about Hermione's psychological situation, although now I think about it, it is actually quite interesting... I see a lot of myself in Hermione, so any analysis of her would be almost like an analysis of myself, and that would be a little bit strange.
Firstly, I believe that she is indubitably a very intelligent person. I feel that intelligence is being able to apply yourself successfully in a wide range of situations, and she certainly seems able to pull that off, such as when she used the blue fire on Professors Snape and Quirrell in book 1. That being said, she is not above panicking, such as when she is watching her friends being caught by the Devil's Snare, and, upon being told to light a fire, says 'But there's no wood.' Also, the extent to which she is, for wont of a better word, 'streetwise', is debatable. Most of her knowledge comes from books, at least, that's as much as we know. She gets exasperated by people who do not know as much as she does (eg, Ron, all the time). Hermione Granger knows things; rather a lot, in fact.
Secondly, I have to agree with prior posters who find it irritating when she is portrayed as being on an intellectual par with Professor Snape. She is, currently, seventeen. A seventeen year old girl who, quite frankly, has lived a sheltered life, first at home in the Muggle world, and then within the confines of the castle, has not got as much experience as our world-weary Potions Master. To suggest that she is at the same level of emotional and intellectual maturity as Severus Snape is a gross exaggeration, or an insult to Professor Snape.
Finally, what do we really know about her? As Pipedreamer points out:
Quote: ...everything we know of Hermione is essentially learned from Harry's POV.
Therefore, although we obviously do have to use guesswork to write for her, we don't actually know Hermione Granger at all. We assume our guesses to be accurate based on what we know from Harry Potter, but the only truly accurate portrayal of Hermione would have to come from JK Rowling herself, who is the only person who can really tell us about her. It simply isn't possible to ever write true canon for Hermione.
So I think that we should just stick as closely as we can to the books, and then discuss any further ideas. Or maybe that's just me...
Rhiannon x x x |
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| zhaneraal |
| Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 2:10 am |
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Joined: 31 May 2005
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celeritas wrote: To suggest that she is at the same level of emotional and intellectual maturity as Severus Snape is a gross exaggeration, or an insult to Professor Snape.
To be honest, while a 17 yr.o. Hermione certainly isn't the intellectual equal of Snape, although she has the potential to become an intellectual equal quite easily with some more experience under her belt, Snape is not the most emotionally mature man. In fact, Hermione might actually be as emotionally together as he is.
Take, for example, that Snape *still* isn't over his childhood with the Marauders being prats. (Please note that at no time I say that Snape didn't deserve it - he probably, in all honesty, did to some degree). He takes it out on Harry almost every chance he gets, not to mention his appalling classroom behavior towards children. He belittles them in ways that go beyond simple mocking, and, for the most part, is not constructive criticism of his students. This is not the behavior of someone who has reached any degree of emotional maturity. Especially for a man who is pushing 40.
If we look at Hermione (and personally, I'm rather fond of the Red Hen essay regarding Hermione's character), she isn't terribly emotionally mature either. Largely, she dresses up whatever book she happens to be parroting as The Truth (tm) in regards to examining people's character, and leaves it at that. She considers the matter done and over with as soon as she has labeled it, put it in its slot, and will move on to the next thing to label. If she can put a big fancy word on it, that is the *final* word. She tends to think of her education as being infallible, which is frequently the fallback of someone who has no other real way of coping with the world around her.
The two may be emotionally immature in different ways, but I would say that they are probably on about the same level within their respective emotional growth charts.
Just my USD .02 |
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| Sylvanawood |
| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:22 pm |
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I know I'm very late -- I just really discovered this forum, but I'd like to add a little fact about Hermione here.
In one of her interviews, JKR describes her as very intelligent, bordering on genius. (It's on the Quick Quotes or Madam Scoop's of the Floo Network). So she is, indeed, very intelligent, maybe even more intelligent than Snape. All she lacks is experience and a bit of maturity -- but that is something many wizards, not only Snape, seem to lack.
It's hard to give her credit without overdoing it and making her a Sue. But it's also important, I think, not to go to the other extreme and downplay her abilities and achievements. She's an outstanding witch and has the potential to become a force to be reckoned with. Whether she will actually live up to that is another matter. Just as Snape's (canon) brilliance is often forgotten in the effort to make him mean and nasty enough for a canon Snape.
I very much like the HG/SS pairing. It won't ever happen in canon and thus is always somewhat AU, which is a good thing for fan fiction, IMO.
It also presents a lot more of a challenge than a teenage romance between Ron and Hermione or Harry and Ginny. And Snape and Hermione are both fascinating characters. I'm not overly fond of most teacher/student stories, though. |
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| maudite |
| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:11 am |
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I think the question of whether or not Hermione is insecure is an overly simplistic one. People do change over time; they grow up and grow out of things, and their experiences and associations have an effect on the development of their personalities. Also, most people aren't completely one-dimensional -- a person can be insecure, but still place the courage of her convictions above her need for approval when it comes down to a choice. (Believe me. I am that person.) Hermione wants the approval of those around her, but perhaps she needs her own approval even more.
Rowling tells us that 11-year-old Hermione is insecure. She has plenty of reasons to be -- she's a bushy-haired know-it-all with an overbite, and most of all, she's Muggleborn. She's just been dropped into a world that's completely different from the one in which she grew up. She knows nothing of the culture, the technology, or the history of the Wizarding world. And she's eleven -- away from her Muggle friends and her parents for possibly the first time in her life -- and wants, as much as every other eleven-year-old, to fit in.
Canon clearly demonstrates that she wants to fit in, IMHO. We see her crying because she hasn't got any friends. We see her out-wizarding Wizard children because she wants to prove she belongs at Hogwarts. Being a smart kid, her first instinct is to arm herself with as much information as she can possibly absorb. It actually backfires on her, in a way, because she places herself so far ahead of the other children that they resent her for it.
Worse yet, no amount of reading about Wizarding culture can prepare her for having to live among wizards every day -- using magic doesn't come instinctively to her yet, and there are bound to be scores of little customs and quirks of society that she stumbles over as she's learning her way around. There will be a dozen or more little daily humiliations for her in her first couple of years. Chances are nobody but Hermione will ever know about most of them, but they're there nonetheless, and they feed that insecurity.
By sixth year, though? Things are very different. She's spent enough time in the Wizarding world to have become a more instinctive magic-user. She's learned her way around the culture to at least some extent. She's had the benefit of the love, support, and approval of several adults outside her own family, adults she really admires and looks up to. She's got two very close, loyal-to-the-death friends, one of whom is not only The Chosen One, but arguably the most famous wizard in the world. (So what if they're both boys? My best friends were boys too.)
She knows she's not unattractive, because an older, more experienced, and very famous professional athlete asked her to the Yule Ball even before he saw her all prettied up. (Let's face it, Viktor can have any girl he wants, and no matter how impressed he is with Hermione's intelligence and studiousness, he's not going to ask her to the Ball if he thinks she's ugly. She's not the only smart girl at Hogwarts. Mmmm, Viktor/Hermione.)
She knows she can clean up well if the situation calls for it -- but after the Ball, she doesn't bother again. There could be any number of reasons for this. Maybe she's proven to her own satisfaction that she can be pretty, and has moved on to bigger challenges. Maybe it's just not worth the effort to her. Maybe she can't bear to sacrifice any of her study and world-saving time at the altar of superficial appearances. Maybe she'd just as soon not encourage the sort of boy who wouldn't find her acceptable as she is. Maybe she's just plain oblivious. Maybe it's a combination of all these things.
She's consistently at the top of her class, ranked above purebloods who'd like to believe she's inferior. She routinely outthinks competent adults and has helped defeat the most powerful Dark wizard in history. And while she does go to the books first for the solution to any problem, and is sometimes a bit rigid about following the rules, she's able to choose intelligently when there's a conflict between her intellect and her heart.
She tells about the Firebolt, even though it will make Harry and Ron angry, not just because "it's the right thing," but because Harry's life is more important (not just to her, but to the whole Wizarding world) than his immediate gratification. On the other hand, even though she believes it's a bad, dangerous idea to go to the Ministry in OotP, in the end she chooses to go with Harry. It seems clear to me that she goes not just because she can't stop Harry, but because he needs her there, as a friend and as a powerful, clever witch. Even though he's been kind of a dick all year, and she's pretty sure going will get them all in deep trouble at best, and at worst end in bloodshed and tragedy.
None of this points to a girl who's suffering from crippling insecurity. In fact, IMHO it points to someone who's picked up a good measure of confidence. Which isn't to say that she's perfectly poised and cool at all times. That inner eleven-year-old never really goes away for any of us, does she?
She'll still be insecure at times, like everybody else. She'll still be a know-it-all, because her curiosity and intellectual arrogance (she does, in the end, value knowledge above all) make it impossible for her to be otherwise.
Sometimes she'll fail to see past her own nose. Sometimes she'll make mistakes. Sometimes she'll save the day. She'll be strong, unswervingly loyal to her two best friends, and fiercely dedicated to doing what she thinks is right -- whether that means following the rules, or breaking them. Some people will view her as clever and knowledgeable, while others think she's shrill and arrogant, and yet others find her intimidating and unfeminine. She might even eventually decide to pay more attention to her appearance, but she certainly won't obsess over it constantly.
But one thing Hermione will never be is a one-note Jane. All the clues exist in canon to make her a complex, fascinating character whose limits are exceeded only (though sometimes unfortunately) by our imaginations. |
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| thegreatsporkwielder |
| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 10:19 pm |
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Joined: 29 Sep 2006
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Location: Leading my Spork Army to World Domination
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Having been the "smart one" at my high school, I find it easy to relate to Hermione. When you're the Smart One, people are always wanting to take advantage of your brains. Hermione, as we all seem to agree, isn't very socially developed. If so, then she would want to take every opportunity to remind people, "Hey! I'm here! I'm the Smart One!!" hoping that will entice people to hang out with her. Ron and Harry (as well as others) take advantage of her time and time again, and she lets them.
Why would a confident person let someone walk all over them like that? I would never let anyone copy my homework, even if they were my best friend. Speaking from experience, when you're a nerd, you're a bit of a social outcast; in high school, that's BRUTAL...and there's probably more posts in this thread than there were people in my high school.
But teenagers are teenagers, no matter how many there are. Having people ask for help with their homework made me feel like I actually had a purpose in life other than just breathing oxygen that should go to someone more worthy. I was such a doormat in high school, I cringe to think of it. I think that Hermione feels sort of the same...she lets everyone take advantage of her because it makes her feel useful and like she's worth something. I think that's also part of why she's such a know-it-all. She feels that the only way people will notice her is if she shows off her Intellectual Prowess.
As she grows up, however, she will mature and become more confident in herself and in her abilities...hopefully. |
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| Zia |
| Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:51 am |
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Joined: 29 Apr 2005
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Location: Den Haag
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thegreatsporkwielder wrote: Having been the "smart one" at my high school, I find it easy to relate to Hermione. When you're the Smart One, people are always wanting to take advantage of your brains.
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Hermione, as we all seem to agree, isn't very socially developed. If so, then she would want to take every opportunity to remind people, "Hey! I'm here! I'm the Smart One!!" hoping that will entice people to hang out with her. Ron and Harry (as well as others) take advantage of her time and time again, and she lets them. [/quote]
Actually, I don't agree. Eleven year old Hermione was not very socially developed. Hermione of OoP/HBP seems to do pretty all right. She is still very insecure when test results come in, but for the rest she is quite confident and a very social character. As a prefect, she tackles Gred and Feorge, she goes against Ron. She is not into quidditch and is not afraid to say so to quidditch fan nr. 1 Harry. She is quite confident she can have any date she wants for Slughorn's party etc. So I don't see where the idea she is not confident comes from.
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Why would a confident person let someone walk all over them like that? I would never let anyone copy my homework, even if they were my best friend.
Because they really don't care.
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But teenagers are teenagers, no matter how many there are. Having people ask for help with their homework made me feel like I actually had a purpose in life other than just breathing oxygen that should go to someone more worthy. I was such a doormat in high school, I cringe to think of it. I think that Hermione feels sort of the same...she lets everyone take advantage of her because it makes her feel useful and like she's worth something. I think that's also part of why she's such a know-it-all. She feels that the only way people will notice her is if she shows off her Intellectual Prowess.
Hm, or she likes the power it gives her. Or she knows people like Ron and Harry will never be really interested in for example History of Magic, so why not let them copy the stuff.
Hermione knows quite well she is important to quite a number of people. She was a loner at the beginning of book one. After that she was not, ever.
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As she grows up, however, she will mature and become more confident in herself and in her abilities...hopefully.
Well, I think we have seen quite a lot of that. Arranging an inteview with Rita Skeeter for the Quibbler, making the coin for the DA, etc. etc. |
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| thegreatsporkwielder |
| Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:42 pm |
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Joined: 29 Sep 2006
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Location: Leading my Spork Army to World Domination
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Quote: Or she knows people like Ron and Harry will never be really interested in for example History of Magic, so why not let them copy the stuff.
This is Hermione we're talking about...she's always such a stickler for the rules (she's always hesitant to break them, it's Harry/Ron who convince her...when she does, it's for greater causes than Harry or Ron not failing a class). She's always pushing them to do their schoolwork, I doubt she would let them copy hers just because she knows they don't like the subject.
Quote: As a prefect, she tackles Gred and Feorge, she goes against Ron. She is not into quidditch and is not afraid to say so to quidditch fan nr. 1 Harry. She is quite confident she can have any date she wants for Slughorn's party etc. So I don't see where the idea she is not confident comes from.
Sure, she does. That's her job. When given a position of authority, she would have to push aside her self-consciousness and get her job done. For all we know, she was shaking inside as she stands up to them. Having that prefect position might have given her confidence, because it is acknowledgment of her abilities given to her outside of the classroom. And how do you know she's confident about the date? She could be putting on a show of confidence to mask her insecurity.
Quote: Hermione knows quite well she is important to quite a number of people
Does she really? Does she know she is important for more than just her brains? That's what I'm getting at. To me, Hermione thinks her identity is still wrapped up in her intellectualism (if that's not a word, I'm making it one!). |
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| Zia |
| Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:13 pm |
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Joined: 29 Apr 2005
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thegreatsporkwielder wrote:
This is Hermione we're talking about...she's always such a stickler for the rules (she's always hesitant to break them, it's Harry/Ron who convince her...when she does, it's for greater causes than Harry or Ron not failing a class). She's always pushing them to do their schoolwork, I doubt she would let them copy hers just because she knows they don't like the subject.
But why would she because of insecurity? They have been friends for years.
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Does she really? Does she know she is important for more than just her brains? That's what I'm getting at. To me, Hermione thinks her identity is still wrapped up in her intellectualism (if that's not a word, I'm making it one!).
Canon for that please. You assume that through years and years of friendship and shared danger Hermione still is not able to recognize true friendship? You make an awful lot of assumptions without any proof only because you want to read the character that way. You ignore all character development you have seen from her from book one to book six. You ignore all things that are not in accordance with your idea or try to talk them away. Serieus character discussion looks at canon instead of projecting what you want to see into a character. |
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