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< The Common Room ~ Marriage Law Challenge, Bane to Creativity? (debate time) |
| RachelW |
 Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 1:09 am |
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Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 64
Location: The Republic of Texas
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The Marriage Law Challenge, bane to creativity? This has been by far the most popular fanfic challenge, with likely a hundred or more responses out there. Some have been really great. Cloak of Courage, and A Law to Herself, for instance. I’ve even seen some variations on the Marriage Law such as ‘Winter Tale’ where Hermione ends up married to Dumbledore. Sounds squicky, I know, but it was a surprisingly sweet story. There was Azazello’s protest piece ‘Married Alive’ which made a statement about the nature of the challenge, and which was rather controversial, especially being a one-shot. A current WIP ‘Le Divorce’ is shaping up to be a very good contribution to the many variations on a theme. ‘Once more, with feeling’ by Ramos is a great post-divorce one-shot that’s realistic, I think.
Now, why has this been so popular? Is it just an easy way to get two people into bed without the need to realistically build a relationship? I think, for some, perhaps. Many of the responses have been looking very much on the ‘bright side’ of a possible forced marriage, in which they find true love within a few days/weeks/months and live happily ever after. Some of these have been sweet, though, in my opinion, unrealistic.
However, I think it is possible to handle it realistically to explore the nature of an arranged marriage and how two people might cope with the situation. Arranged marriages are still practiced in some places in the world, and I find it an interesting, albeit rather disturbing (for me) concept, but mostly because the type of guy my parents would pick for me I’d end up strangling within a week. But, for people in that culture it would be quite normal, and I understand that people do find love in arranged marriages.
And then, there is the nature of sexual relations in the MLC. Technically, all sex in the MLC’s with any kind of required intercourse is non-consensual for both partners. They don’t want to do it. They can choose to make the best of it, but really, considering greasy haired, snaggle-toothed canon-Snape, would you really want to have to have sex with him? I know it’s nice to imagine him as Alan Rickman, but Snape isn’t Alan Rickman…for our poor Hermione, it could possibly be similar to having to lay back and think of England as she lets Filch have his way with her…of course, no one would read about that. And so, I imagine Snape as a younger looking Alan Rickman, call me a hypocrite already.
Anyway, this is just some cobbled together thoughts taken off a few debates that have happened, and what better way to break in the new MB than a debate on the most famous/infamous story challenge ever? Something on this was brought up on the old MB only days before it was shut down, so here we go again.
Azazello, I'll looking forward to your very vehement and poignant opinions. 
~RachelW |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 12:48 pm |
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A challenge/gauntlet, much?
Gauntlet duly picked up...
Or, "Why I do not like the MLC by Azazello aged 49 1/2".
I didn't care one way or another when I came into the ship, and let's mention here, the MLC has been around longer than me. As I understand it, the challenge was made back around (approximately) July 2003. I didn't come into fandom until June 2003, never wrote fanfic until August 2003, and only wrote/published SS/HG in November 2003.
I didn't join WIKTT until end December 2003 (gee, that was a long and happy relationship!) and actually had no idea the MLC existed, until about Feb/March 2004.
So much for history. Well, not quite. The MLC began in HG/DM, again from what I believe, where it was moderately popular, but nothing like as much as SS/HG. That does wrap the history up, pretty well, now let's move on to why I do not like it. Period.
First of all, these comments are general. If people reading this think in any way I am making an attack on their own fic, well they are probably wrong. Generally, I see the phrase Marriage Law and hit the back button PDQ. However, I'd have to have lived in a hole in the road not to notice the plethora of MLC fics and their popularity, wouldn't I?
Let's sum up first roughly, what the MLC entailed, though I cannot put hand on heart for its accuracy. I'd have to rejoin WIKTT to find out, and please, that's a bit of research too far.
Essentially, the basic premise is that following depredations on their numbers post struggle, the Pureblood numbers are down. Accordingly, in an act of eugenics, the Ministry of Magic decrees that unmarried Pureblood Wizards must contract marriage with a Muggleborn witch pronto. Purpose being to breed fresh wizarding stock. There may be other tiresome bells and whistles details, but by and large that's what they are.
On top of that, many writers have written takes on this (including me) where they often vehemently deny their fic has anything to do with the MLC. Whatever. Essentially, none of these fics would exist without that basic premise.
My prime reason for disliking the idea is around this pairing. Whatever ardent shippers say, this pairing SS/HG is NOT obvious. Spare me the meeting of minds justification, too. If Severus has been looking for a clever girl, I'm sure there has been one nearer his age in the Wizarding World. So, sorry, Hermione Granger is not his only possible match.
All the interaction between Severus and Hermione in canon pretty makes it clear he does NOT secretly fancy her. He thinks she is a pain in the arse, and a pest. She respects him the way she respects all teachers. A schoolgirl crush might be possible (Snape is ugly to Harry, he's not a grotesque) and she's more defending of his position than most canon characters are. That's not exactly set up, though, is it?
Therefore, seeing as the pairing is not obvious, the fanfic writer needs to set it up.
I do not write for SS/HG shippers. I write for HP fandom. Therefore I am keen to set this pairing up so that even a dogmatic anti shipper might read and say, "Yup! That is possible!" And by the way, I have a good many members of my readership for whom that is true. I've got hardline slashers reading my story. Set up is all. Set up is actually much of the fun of writing them. And I'm sorry, but that's where a good deal of the straight up ship fics fail, totally.
The MLC situation exonerates the writer from even that much work (except if I am reading) because it simply throws this on the face of it, ill assorted pair together without any writing. And it is writing that makes this ship sail or sink.
The idea of the Ministry making such a decree is a laughable. Post struggle it is possible that pureblood ancestry may become an embarrassment. It's more likely that the MoM will draw up new rules on bloodlines to ensure any burgeoning anti-Muggleborn prejudice is nipped firmly in the bud. Think of the canon and extrapolate sensibly. Fanfic is not a free for all.
I've yet to read an straight up MLC fic that is in character. Why are they out of character? Because Hermione goes tamely to marriage with a man she cannot possibly fancy. And thence usually to kinky and downright squicky sex with a man years her senior - oh, and guess what? She's gagging for it.
As they say on fandom_wank, "Bitch, please".
Canon Hermione would protest, cause endless trouble, use magic to shrink Severus' dick to the size of a radish (a baby radish) , or failing those things, run like hell, and found a resistance.
But not in MLC fics.
Because the writers do not want her to, see. Because the purpose of the MLC fic is simple. Smut without set up. Porn without plot. But PWP without the deep down and dirty honesty of a good genuine PWP.
Essentially, the MLC is a charter for the idle writer.
You can set this couple up (non-lazily) in two ways. By means of a story that develops an attraction whereby the true nature of each is slowly revealed. That takes a few chapters.
Coup de Foudre.
Coup de what?
Coup de Foudre. Instant desperate attraction. Grand Passion. Both are do-able - I've done 'em and they work. The proviso being that grand passion normally comes with a price tag. As anyone who has lived through a grand passion will tell you.
But write an MLC fic and you do not have to bother with either! In fact, I'd argue that you don't have to bother with anything, given the fact that readers seem to lap this up (hell, my own ugly bugly MLC fic got a higher review hit that anything I ever wrote, miserable thing that it was).
That's my comments on the structure. Here's what has got really boring.
Challenges are fun for the newbie who cannot perhaps come up with ideas or basic premises for fic writing. We all need to get started somewhere. But, please, enough already. Some MLC's have been so undeservedly popular (and please note I am not saying they all are) that it's a bandwagon. Take any MLC fic and watch it get treble, quadruple the reviews of anything else (my own being a case in point) regardless of quality. I've seen quality fics ignored in the face of yet another tired MLC pile of cliche. We all want praise. So that causes the avalanche of more and more people writing them. And those fics are great for the sort of reader who wants nothing new, wants cliche, wants cookie cutter stuff. It's disheartening for anyone trying to do something original or different. Especially if they are new and uncertain.
The MLC has begun to strangle individuality as few new writers get any encouragement unless they start with one of these.
MLC fics? Too boring, too formulaic and too damn many. Enough already. Long live set up romance and quality writing.
And I reiterate it's a stupid bloody premise. It always was, and always is.
And while we are on the subject, never mind Hermione, does anyone seriously think Snape would do either of the following:
1. Allow himself to be forced into marriage with anyone
2. Be nice to the person he was forced to live with.
Get real, he'd hate it more than her. This is an intense, private and secretive man, who has made his own life altering decisions against the trend.
MLC - A big thumbs down. Bin it please.  |
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| azazello |
| Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 12:49 pm |
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Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Posts: 183
Location: Northern UK
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Buggerit, the above was me, in case you did not guess, I thought I was logged in.
Dammit,  |
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| RachelW |
| Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:15 pm |
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Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 64
Location: The Republic of Texas
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I was hoping you'd answer, you've got the most coherant anti-MLC argument, and of course, if there's going to be a debate, we must have coherance.
"The MLC situation exonerates the writer from even that much work (except if I am reading) because it simply throws this on the face of it, ill assorted pair together without any writing. And it is writing that makes this ship sail or sink."
Yes, that it does. However, I think this can be done well. They're thrown together, how do they react? Do they fall in love? Does he strangle her? Does she shrink his willie? Usually not...well, almost never. But, I think the interresting thing about such a formulatic and seemingly cookie-cutter challenge is to make something different and creative out of it. It's like the classic cliche of being stranded on a deserted island...can anything creative and unique happen?
However, I'll agree that the MLC is much easier to write than it is to do a slow build and realistcally pull the two of them together. And, I can agree also on the frustration of the non MLC's geting ignored...I've got two stories besides my MLC that have only a fraction of the readership. But, just as people are apt to slow down on the highway to watch a horrid car wreck, they'll stop and read a MLC for the same kind of Vourism...it's exciting and titilating. Hermione's dad tries to punch Snape! Ohh, we have drama! And, I'll also admit my MLC response likely has the highest 'watching a car wreck but can't look away' factor. LOL.
"The idea of the Ministry making such a decree is a laughable. Post struggle it is possible that pureblood ancestry may become an embarrassment. It's more likely that the MoM will draw up new rules on bloodlines to ensure any burgeoning anti-Muggleborn prejudice is nipped firmly in the bud."
Yeppers, sensible people, if faced with the same problem, could come up with much better plans than the Marriage Law. It's really hard to realistically build just why the Marriage Law could be made, and I think about the best that can be done is either an emergency Wizingamot session where all the polititians who can't think straight get together and twist the suggestion of a few experts into something unrecognizable (which happens with lawmakers), or maybe Voldie is behind it all and has Fudge under Imperio. Of course, then there are better ways of Voldie getting control of the Muggleborns...he doesn't want to control them, he wants them gone, dead...not married to his Death Eaters.
I think the best story about a Marriage Law is one in which the author came up with the idea independently and that's Theastrem's "Chaos". I think it has a realistic Snape too. But, it's not connected to the Marriage Law Challenge, and it's a major plot-driven story, not in any way a PWP.
"And while we are on the subject, never mind Hermione, does anyone seriously think Snape would do either of the following:
1. Allow himself to be forced into marriage with anyone"
You know, on this one, it's a probably not, unless Dumbledore got involved. I think Dumbledore might be able to convince him, if Hermione were actually in the unlikely situation of possibly getting married off to Lucius Malfoy or Draco Malfoy who had plans to kill her. I also think that Dumbledore has used Snape and manipulated him in many other things, and that this could be an added factor which would cause problems in a marriage he would be manipulated into.
"2. Be nice to the person he was forced to live with. "
Nope, don't think he would be. He might be civil, but I also think that *if* he was manipulated into getting married to a student like Hermione, he'd want to keep things as seperate as possible. He might even manipulate the situation in a way that was benificial to him. I think forced marriage to Snape would be a very difficult situation because he is so private, he wouldn't want to share his space, or share of himself. I don't think it would be a bed of roses and sweetness.
"The MLC has begun to strangle individuality as few new writers get any encouragement unless they start with one of these."
I'll agree here too. I started one because I was new to writing and wanted to try something that would get lots of feedback, so I suppose I prove your point here. I've noticed a lot of MLC's are from fairly new fanfic writers too. Some aren't, and those are generally the best. So, while I think there can be some new and interresting things done within the bounds of the MLC, I also think a lot of people have tried to follow closely to the 'happily ever after' that is standard just to do something that is already tried and proven as successful. I think the trend is coming to a close now, and maybe we'll see more efforts to individuality in writing, and maybe readers will start picking up on new kinds of plots and giving encouragement to that too.
~RachelW |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 8:07 pm |
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| I've found that MLC can be interesting. I don't know as an author how it effects people, because I can't stick to one plot, so I don't really write and put it up. But I do analyze things a lot, and I think when it bacomes to popular it draws the newest writers, or the ones who are dying for reviews. When I started reading fanfiction 3 years ago, I read mainly Draco Malfoy/Ginny Weasly. At that point most people weren't into it, so there weren't many, but out of the few there were, many were amazing. So I started reading MCL stories before everyone started writing them, I found them really good, (to my surprise, I wasn't a big fan of SS/HG) I think by now it isn't as good, but if you look carefully you can find the gems. I'd recommend fictionalleypark to look for good stories to read, people recomment them for many websites and they are really picky. I like a lot of them. |
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| Snape's Patronus |
| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 8:27 pm |
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Joined: 20 Dec 2004
Posts: 10
Location: Inside my own head.
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Azazello wrote:
Let's sum up first roughly, what the MLC entailed, though I cannot put hand on heart for its accuracy. I'd have to rejoin WIKTT to find out, and please, that's a bit of research too far.
Essentially, the basic premise is that following depredations on their numbers post struggle, the Pureblood numbers are down. Accordingly, in an act of eugenics, the Ministry of Magic decrees that unmarried Pureblood Wizards must contract marriage with a Muggleborn witch pronto. Purpose being to breed fresh wizarding stock. There may be other tiresome bells and whistles details, but by and large that's what they are.
What so deeply squicks me about the MLC is the bit about breeding "fresh wizarding stock." If all they had to do was marry, and do nothing more than enter into that legal arrangement and share a residence, it would still be a silly idea--but at least the characters could find ways to work around it. That they must marry and reproduce, however, is simply vile. Being forced to marry, have sex, and have children by government mandate is not only tyrannical and degrading, but most wizards and witches would likely storm the Ministry before submitting to such a law. There's nothing romantic about it.
Severus absolutely loathes children, carries a lot of unwieldy psychological baggage, and would very likely make an awful, if not downright abusive, parent. Hermione is young, and has plenty of other talents to contribute in rebuilding the postwar wizarding world; reducing her to breeding stock is an utter waste of her potential. Biological determinism, anyone?
Now, I could see writing a very snarky SS/HG MLC fic in which they are each working for separate resistance groups, without the other knowing, and only marry to keep the Ministry off their backs until they can overthrow it. But just going along with such a law, without any sort of fight? I agree with you completely; there's no way those characters would allow that to happen. Using the MLC as a way to get them together and force romance to bloom deeply disrespects both of them.
Quote: Canon Hermione would protest, cause endless trouble, use magic to shrink Severus' dick to the size of a radish (a baby radish) , or failing those things, run like hell, and found a resistance.
Canon Severus would concoct a potion to make his sperm count drop to zero, then get a Ministry exemption on the grounds of sterility. Failing that, he'd probably shrink his own dick to the size of a baby radish before bedding that annoying know-it-all Granger girl. He wouldn't found a resistance movement, but he would certainly join one if the leader was charismatic enough and offered Severus a position as right-hand man. After spying on Voldemort and the Death Eaters, it would be hardly more than a walk in the park for him... |
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| Anne |
| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 2:37 pm |
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| Here's the thing. Fanfiction is supposed to be a place where fans can take the characters. It doesn't have to fall in with canon. If it had to follow canon to be good, you might as well not write and just wait for the next JKR book. SS/HG ship is about as realistic as HP/DM, and there are a TON of those out there too. It's the readers that make it believable in their minds. I prefer to read a good SS/HG than the original canon books. JMO |
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| azazello |
| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 6:45 pm |
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Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Posts: 183
Location: Northern UK
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Don't agree. If it does not follow canon to some extent, then it is not Harry Potter fanfic, it is just original work which presumably the author would rather bung into the HP verse, where there are a lot of readers.
The point about it being Harry Potter fanfic is that is it is Harry Potter fanfic and therefore it had better be clearly recognisable as deriving from the canon as written by J K Rowling.
Take the argument that "it's fanfic I can write what I like" far enough and you'd have blonde Hermione and Snape wearing pink bunny slippers. He'd not be Snape and she'd not be Hermione.
I'm reading Harry Potter fanfic because I like the Harry Potter books. If I did not, I'd not be in the fandom, and I can never quite get my head round why people seem not to wish to have canon in their stories. How can you call it HP fanfic?
So by all means write these free for alls, just do not expect much respect from the intelligent and hardline fan. |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2004 12:51 am |
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As a canon geek, I don't agree with the "but it's fan fiction; I can do what I like!" argument. To me, that's just an excuse for lazy writing. After all, why bother to develop your own characters and settings when you can just tweak someone else's?
Anne wrote: If it had to follow canon to be good, you might as well not write and just wait for the next JKR book.
I don't understand that line of reasoning at all.
I love JK Rowling's books. She has written some characters that I absolutely adore, and she has piqued my curiosity about them. Through the HP books, however, we only see that world through Harry's eyes. While waiting for the next book to come out, I want to know more about the characters and what is happening to them, especially the adults. As a fanfic reader and writer, I get to explore the Potterverse through other characters' points of view, given what I already know about them from the books. Good fanfic that respects canon and is a believable extension of the Potterverse actually makes the time between JKR's books bearable.
I see writing fanfiction as an intellectual game, and competent players are those who respect the rules set down, in canon, by that fandom's creator. In the Potterverse, JKR has established some strict, concrete rules (no American students at Hogwarts, the students wear black robes, Ollivander only uses certain materials in his wands, etc.), and implied others (Snape was an abused child, Mrs. Norris may or may not be just a cat, Dumbledore may or may not know everything that happens at Hogwarts).
I don't always like the rules, and sometimes I want to bend them just a bit. Sometimes I want to introduce a new rule of my own. But part of playing the game well is convincing the observers--readers--that these changes in the rules fit logically within the larger set of rules. If I decide that American wizards use cell phones and email, not the Floo network, and I want to bring an American character into the story, I have to describe the communications difficulties that ensue for both sides. I can't just give Remus Lupin a Palm Pilot and dismiss it with a two-sentence explanation. Similarly, if I'm going to ship Harry Potter (who, according to the books and JKR herself, favors girls) with his enemy, Draco Malfoy, I have a hell of a lot of explaining to do to make that remotely believable. If I even can.
Simply ignoring the rules because I feel like it, or because I don't like them, or because the actor who played Draco is teh!hawt! defeats the entire purpose of the game. At that point, I see the resulting fics as fangirlfics--they're all about the author's romantic/angsty/consumerist/success fantasies, and just happen to take place at a school called Hogwarts, with appearances by characters who just happen to be named after those in a series of British children's books.
Quote: SS/HG ship is about as realistic as HP/DM, and there are a TON of those out there too.
Both ships are completely unrealistic within canon. Harry Potter (as Rowling has written him) is not going to fall in love with Draco Malfoy (as Rowling has written him).
Now, yes, there are a TON of fictional young gay male wizard couples out there in cyberspace that happen to share the names of these two characters, and maybe even some surface similarities, but as far as any self-respecting canon geek is concerned, they are not Harry or Draco. To pair them up like that means the writer is completely ignoring who those characters are and everything that has happened to them--and worse, doesn't care. Why bother writing about the characters if you don't respect them?
They may be inspired by the original characters (or, more likely, the actors who portray them), but they so thoroughly violate what we know about the characters from the books that they might as well have different names entirely.
The fact that there are a lot of SS/HG and DM/HP fics out there, and that there is a very large readership for that sort of thing does not make them good as fanfic. Some have the potential to be decent original fiction, if the authors changed the names and some of the details. But then again, it's far easier to get people to read and review a horribly OOC HP fic than it is to get them to read a really good original fic. And I think that's a big reason why fangirls who ship HG/SS or HP/DM don't bother to make the leap and just go write original fiction. It's just too much work, without the payoff in attention. |
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| Snape's Patronus |
| Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2004 12:55 am |
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Joined: 20 Dec 2004
Posts: 10
Location: Inside my own head.
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| Arghh. That last post was mine... |
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| RachelW |
| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 7:04 pm |
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Joined: 15 Dec 2004
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Location: The Republic of Texas
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Anne wrote: Here's the thing. Fanfiction is supposed to be a place where fans can take the characters. It doesn't have to fall in with canon. If it had to follow canon to be good, you might as well not write and just wait for the next JKR book. SS/HG ship is about as realistic as HP/DM, and there are a TON of those out there too. It's the readers that make it believable in their minds. I prefer to read a good SS/HG than the original canon books. JMO
If it doesn't fall in with canon, it's not fanfiction. I think fanfic authors should try their best to keep charachters canon. Others may disagree on their interpretation of a charachter, but he or she must be recognizable as that charachter.
It's not the readers that make stories believable, it's the writers. A reader can only 'suspend disbelief' so much. A good writer can tell a good story, pair up unlikely charachters, and make it believable, where another writer can try a similar plot and pairing and fail miserably...it's the writer, not the reader. One of the most difficult pairings to do believably is Lucius/Hermione...but it's been done, however, it's been attempted far too many times unsuccessfully. |
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| Diana |
| Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:37 am |
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Head Moderator
Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 116
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This is my first post here, but I had to reply. The MLC topic is something I'm very passionate about...very passionately against. There are maybe three or four MLC pieces that I have ever read from start to finish.
The first story was Cloak of Courage. This story, from what I can gather, is a wildly popular story. It was actually the first SS/HG that I stumbled upon in the HP fandom. I was a bit shocked to discover that SS/HG had a wide fan following. I was a bit squicked at the pairing at first, but as Cloak of Courage is the first story that I ever read with the pairing, it holds a special place on my top fic picks list.
There are many reasons why I am willing to accept the MLC in this particular story. One being that Hermione's original intended was Ron Weasley. If this ludicrous law were to be passed in canon (absurd thought really) and if Hermione were in fact forced to marry a pure blood, the only person I can see her willingly marry would in fact be Ron. As far as I am concerned HG/RW is in fact a pretty accurate canon ship.
The second reason that I am willing to go along with the MLC set up in this story is because while the relationship does tend to move along quickly after Hermione and Snape end up as the main pairing, I won't say why for those who haven't read, they both go into this relationship for their own selfish reasons. I'm afraid that I have to agree with those who believe that Voldemort would go to any lengths in order to reach and defeat Harry, even if that included allowing one of his precious Death Eaters marry a muggle born witch. Snape is manipulative in his pursuits, and Hermione has her own set of problems to work out.
The third and final reason that I enjoyed this story is because there was a lot of original plotting in this story. I guess to put it bluntly, it simply worked for me. There was enough canon in the story for me to find it enjoyable as well as a lot of original touches. Cloak of Courage wasn't simply a story thrown together by an author for the sole purpose of seeking recognition and reviews, it was a well written story by an author who wanted to tell her tale.
The second was a story, unfortunately I cannot remember the name or the author, where Hermione and Snape did in fact marry. They married as muggles would outside of the wizarding world in order to twart the Ministry. They also got themselves a prompt, what I like to refer to as a Dominican Republic (in other words quick), divorce. They then set out to have the ML overturned. They did end up together in the end, but it was a relationship full of Snarky Snape and Logical Hermione.
The final story was Azazello's own dark, twisted, and pretty logical take on the whole fiasco. I should be honest with you and say that I didn't really feel that either Snape or Hermione were truly in character in this story, whether or not that was an intentional decision by Azazello I don't know. I am intelligent and well read enough to realize the intention in which this story was written. I agree with Azazello's take on the washed up and absurd challenge.
In addition to the stories that I have mentioned, I should also mention why in most cases I find this set up to be so utterly absurd. The MLC is offensive. The MLC is offensive to the reader and it is offensive to the canon world that J.K. Rowling has so meticulously pieced together.
In addition to being offensive in all the more obvious reasons, it is also offensive towards women. Why do you think it is always Hermione who is cast in the role of damsel in distress? Perhaps I'm reading a different set of books than those who came up with this ludicrous challenge, but Hermione is not a female character who needs saving. Hermione is cast in this role time and time again, and not just in MLC fics, but in most "popular" fanfiction. Why? So Snape or Draco or (insert any male character here) can run to her aid and become the hero of some poorly written half assed offensive fairytale.
If we're going to talk about the MLC in such a fashion than it is only fair if we take a look at all of these anti-fem stories circulating among the SS/HG fandom. Most of these writers are simply too lazy to come up with a logical way to throw Snape and Hermione together so they do what comes easy, they make Hermione this poor and pitiful broken little girl and have Snape be her hero. Severus Snape is not a hero. Severus Snape is not the kind of man you take home to mum. And Severus Snape is definitely not going to risk exposing both himself and the whole Order simply because Voldemort and his evil posse decided that Hermione would make for fine entertainment at the next Death Eater bake sale.
My biggest problem with the MLC is that it makes Hermione Granger a weak little girl in need of saving. Hermione Granger is not a weak little girl who needs a big strong man to save her. And even if she was and did, to be quite frank, Severus Snape is not the man for the job. |
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| liquidscissors |
| Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:23 am |
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Moderator
Joined: 27 Dec 2004
Posts: 164
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| Short answer: the only way you could make a MLC more vile is by the addition of a time turner. |
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| azazello |
| Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:44 pm |
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Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Posts: 183
Location: Northern UK
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Timeturner/MLC now that would be a marriage made in hell, for me. Though I spect the fangurls who like it would disagree.
For what it is worth, I deliberately did not write sparky Hermione who leads the resistance in "Married Alive" because it would have been a different story, entirely.
I was actually playing with a number of ideas either stated or unstated.
1. That the challenge is silly. And even in the good stories, CoC , Chaos, Hermione gets jiggy with Snape way too damn quickly. In CoC she's supposed to be deranged with grief about Ron and I was not convinced. They're (her and Snape) still having red hawt sex on the wedding night. I don't buy it. No one who has ever had sex with someone they didn't like could buy the idea. (my personal opinion, that does not make either of these fics anything other than quality fic - so do not come and shout at me) I remember someone trying to come onto me after I'd split up with someone I'd been mad about, when I thought that person was just spending time with me out of kindness, and I was horrified. You get the feminine equivalent of cannot get it up...
2. Girls commit suicide in countries where arranged marriages take place. Or they try and run and get murdered by their families in crimes of honour (we have cases of this among certain ethnic groups in the UK).
3. Snape was in character - he just wasn't very nice. We all want to believe he is nice, in canon, but we have no way of being sure, yet.
4. As the concept of forced and arranged marriage is pretty Victorian gothic, I made that a subtext of the whole story.
And I pissed off lots of fangirls, too.
The fun of the pairing is setting them up. That's it for me. MLC aids the idle writer who is out of ideas to attract this pair to one another. Saves tiresome plotting in the most of cases (I exempt CoC and Chaos from that charge, even though I hold to my caveat about the sex depicted) and in some it's downright absurd, One night of nasty pervy sex and Hermione is being written like she's a nympho.
This is a nice Middle class english girl. She's pretty damn normal. She'd recoil in horror from some of the things writers have her liking in MLC fics. |
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| Diana |
| Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 11:39 pm |
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Head Moderator
Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 116
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Azazello- When I had the pleasure to read Married Alive, I was of two minds as to how I felt about the story. On the one hand, I did find it believable, I really did. You are absolutely right about arranged marriages and suicide. My second thought when I read the story was how, in my opinion, OOC Severus and Hermione were yet weren't at the same time. I realize that what I'm saying probably makes no sense at all, but what I'm getting at is that I felt Hermione in particular was out of character, but she was realistic too. To me it was almost like you were saying that there really isn't a way to keep these two characters canon when dealing with this challenge so if we are going to embrace the OOC-ness, lets then keep it realistic.
Please, if I've gotten this completely wrong I would really like to know. I did like the story for its realistic take on the subject.
As for the whole MLC debate, I still stand by what I said above, my biggest problem has always been with Hermione being turned into this victim. Always the victim. Why is it that writers feel the only way to give "power" to Hermione (and believe it or not I've had a supposed author tell me that once) is to beat her down? It is degrading. It doesn't just happen in SS/HG or MLC fics either, it happens to Hermione in about 2/3 of all fics featuring her. I sometimes ask myself whether these people have even read the Hermione in J.K. Rowling's books. Maybe they just like the name... |
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