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| azazello |
 Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 6:18 am |
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Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Posts: 183
Location: Northern UK
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My rates are quite modest...
Seriously though. At present I have too big a fandom workload to do more, but I will be very happy to answer questions on individual issues. For example, I can suggest the correct alternatives to the following embarrassing eruptions of blatant americanism in fics:
Grading papers: Marking essays
Panties: knickers
Boxers: Underpants
Snarky (please, please do not use this in connection with Snape, it shows you up): sarcastic.
Boy howdy, Ms Granger: Good evening Miss Granger. For your detention I shall expect you to clean out those cauldrons without using magic.
(actually I've never seen the "boy howdy one" but that's not to say it isn't out there).
Email me for those tiresome slacks/trouser problems, in strictest confidence, at june.diamanti@gmail.com
And no, generally I wont snigger point and laugh, unless we do it together!
As a further encouragement, I am also about the same age as the Marauders, and lived in their time, and can remember it, so I can do historical brit, as well. |
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Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony ~ Monty Python and the Holy Grail |
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| Razzberry |
| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:55 pm |
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Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 82
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I'm wondering if I'm the only American writer who really really appreciates these kinds of lists.
See, a lot of these terms are positively interchangable in the US-- pants/slacks/trousers... I've been known to refer to the same item in my wardrobe by all three names. It's difficult to know what is 'more American' when the words are all commonly used. Another example is cell phone/mobile phone. They're both commonly used and had I never heard someone commenting on the use of 'cell' in hp fic, I'd have never known there was a distinction.
Would it be taken absolutely the wrong way if there were a permanent thread on this Brit-picking board where Brits can do what you just did-- in a non-accusatory and non-inflammatory manner, point out that 'these terms are Americanisms', and as folks are reading and they come across something that belongs on the list, they might just tack it on? With the understanding that those who stand to get offended if they see a word or phrase they've written into a fic should simply avoid reading the thread.
Would people be able to handle the concept? Could it *not* turn into a 'thread of shame' (ie, could both sides be trusted to take it in the spirit of information? No catty comments from the Brits and no overly-sensitive offense taken by the Americans in the community... is it possible that everyone involved could be sensible and mature about it?)
Just wondering.
~Razz |
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| azazello |
| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:06 pm |
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Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Posts: 183
Location: Northern UK
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I think that's a good idea.
I'd like to point out that if the story is good, I'll forgive non-brit usage. It's when there's clearly been no attempt made to get the spirit of the Potterverse up that I find myself wincing.
Oddly enough, there is one scenario of Snapefic where you can get away with Americanisms, easy peasy.
And it is what narrow minded folk call Mary Sue. It's this:
A woman from the US comes to the Wizarding World and narrates her story. She can meet Severus, or anyone else. But I'll read and enjoy stuff like that if the heroine is a bit feisty. I don't share the big odium against Mary Sues (cos I've read some really good Mary Sues!). She can use as many US terms as you like. And written well, it can work.
Anyway, back on topic, let me mull this over for a night, I'll post a few of the "wincers" of US usage and their alternative terms in the UK. Call it an ongoing glossary, not some "This is the mistakes". I'd also point out, that if I tried to write Buffyverse, I'd make a huge great tit of myself.
I'd like to say, in the light of recent controversy about the site, and to a lesser extent my job in it, that finding any Americanism NEVER made me reject a fic, or call fault. It's also very important to stress that I do not consider US spelling a fault in any way shape or form. When I vet a fic, I look through it, and then enable whichever spell check dictionary appropriate. US spelling is not a fault.
However, Snape speaking in American diction is. If he says, "Howdy" then that is probably a mistake...
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Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony ~ Monty Python and the Holy Grail |
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| celisnebula |
| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 12:56 am |
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Joined: 31 Dec 2004
Posts: 312
Location: USA
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I'd be lost without English/American conversion lists. I've got like an almost 5-6 page list of things a friend from South Yorkshire emailed to me, simply so I'd quit pestering him for explanations on things that I'd be more than happy to share with anyone, if they would like.
I would love to see something like that here... I know I want to keep as close to UK dialects as possible for authenticity. Even using the lists I have I still make some friends and family over in the UK read what I have, it is hard to keep the Americanisms out, even when a person is constantly vigilant about it, and I'm not insane enough to believe I've got the whole Brit-slang thing down even though I've heard it almost all my life from my grandmother and cousins. I constantly astounded at how varied the slang is over there considering the complete size of the UK; but then I get @itch slapped by a cousin or a friend for being an uncomprehending American whose global hubris knows no bounds, or a stroppy cow (personally I prefer the stroppy cow bit because then I get to hear some interesting swear words).
Interesting things I have learned (or American to British slang translates I know):
crackers are called crispbread or savory biscuit
dumpsters are called bins
car trunk is called a boot
car hood is called a bonnet
baby stroller is called a pram
babysitter is a minder
bandaid is an elastoplast
boots are called wellies (short for Wellingtons)
buttocks/ass is called either a bum or an arse
chat is called natter (ie natter on)
drunk is called being blotto, legless, paralytic, or pissed
eraser is a rubber (something else that caused a bit of confusion the first time around when I thought my cousin was asking for a condom…. and I was all set to tell my mom so the little snot would get into trouble)
exhausted is knackered
garter belt is called suspenders
highway is a motorway
living room is called a lounge (though what exactly would what we call a lounge be?)
middle of nowhere is called the back of beyond
moron is called a berk
tape is called sellotape (hence the spellotape I guess)
popsicle is an ice lolly
raincoat is a mac (short of Mackintosh the Scotsman who invented it I believe)
rent is to hire
sausage and potatoes are bangers and mash
stupid is gormless or daft
pussy is called a fanny (which is kinda funny when you consider a fanny over here is an ass… boy did I think a male friend was into the wrong thing when we got drunk one night in Vegas and started talking about crap like that)
And my favorite word of all is fuckwit… which well I don’t think we Americans really have a term that comes close to that other than asshole.
If I got any wrong, let me know cause I want to update my list. |
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Celis~~~
And they say we're crazy
http://www.livejournal.com/users/celisnebula/
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| azazello |
| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 10:32 am |
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Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Posts: 183
Location: Northern UK
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Celisnebula wrote
Quote: crackers are called crispbread or savory biscuit
dumpsters are called bins
car trunk is called a boot
car hood is called a bonnet
baby stroller is called a pram
babysitter is a minder
bandaid is an elastoplast
boots are called wellies (short for Wellingtons)
buttocks/ass is called either a bum or an arse
chat is called natter (ie natter on)
drunk is called being blotto, legless, paralytic, or pissed
eraser is a rubber (something else that caused a bit of confusion the first time around when I thought my cousin was asking for a condom…. and I was all set to tell my mom so the little snot would get into trouble)
exhausted is knackered
garter belt is called suspenders
highway is a motorway
living room is called a lounge (though what exactly would what we call a lounge be?)
middle of nowhere is called the back of beyond
moron is called a berk
tape is called sellotape (hence the spellotape I guess)
popsicle is an ice lolly
raincoat is a mac (short of Mackintosh the Scotsman who invented it I believe)
rent is to hire
sausage and potatoes are bangers and mash
stupid is gormless or daft
pussy is called a fanny (which is kinda funny when you consider a fanny over here is an ass… boy did I think a male friend was into the wrong thing when we got drunk one night in Vegas and started talking about crap like that)
And my favorite word of all is fuckwit… which well I don’t think we Americans really have a term that comes close to that other than asshole.
Here's a slight expansion on those:
crackers are called crispbread or savory biscuit They are also called crackers! Crispbread are very specifically those sort of pieces of cardboard like "Ryvita" which are eaten when trying to lose weight. Only to have the dieter give up in digust and secretly gorge on bread and butter.
dumpsters are called bins Or dustbins, or wheelie bins, for the new thing. Most areas have wheelie bins.
car trunk is called a boot Indeed so.
car hood is called a bonnet or "front end".
baby stroller is called a pram A pram only is used to refer to more of what you would call a baby carriage. A pram is that big lie down thing. A stroller is either a pushchair, or a baby buggy.
babysitter is a minder Actually we say babysitter to refer to someone who looks after a child for example in the evening if the parents go out. A Childminder is more usually the person who looks after children, on a near professional basis, for pay. Registered childminders can earn a great deal and are rigorously vetted.
bandaid is an elastoplast Or sticking plaster. Elastoplast is a brand name and used to be the main brand, but not anymore.
boots are called wellies (short for Wellingtons) How true. But only rubber rainproof boots. Leather boots are just boots.
Ahem:
If it wasn't for your wellies,
Where would you be?
You'd be in the hospital or infirmary.
You would suffer cold or flu or even pleurisy
If ye didn'ae have yer feet in yer wellies.
(Billy Connoly wrote that and used to sing it in his stage act)
buttocks/ass is called either a bum or an arse
And never "fanny".
chat is called natter (ie natter on) Or chat, we chatter, or chat, or gossip.
drunk is called being blotto, legless, paralytic, or pissed
Excuse me, I'm an expert. Plastered. Mortal. Steaming. Bladdered. Rotten. Shitfaced (yes we use that - we imported it from you in the US). Raucously pissed is my own personal statement. As in: "Now that that's over I fully intend to get raucously pissed."
Hammered. Stotius (Scottish that one). Three sheets to the wind. Tired and emotional (used originally by the press to refer to a drunk Cabinet Minister in the 1960's). Out of it. Off one's face. Well out of order.
eraser is a rubber (something else that caused a bit of confusion the first time around when I thought my cousin was asking for a condom…. and I was all set to tell my mom so the little snot would get into trouble)
What can I say? Get this wrong and be responsible for an incident of international seriousness!
exhausted is knackered Or shattered, wrecked, whacked.
garter belt is called suspenders
In the UK, suspenders hold up your stockings, or in the case of old fashioned men, socks. Sock suspenders are somehow inherently funny.
Suspenders do not hold up your trousers. First time I read a comment in an american novel by a cautious character, that he was "A suspenders and belt man" I thought he was a transvestite.
It might also be worth mentioning that a good many men can be rendered putty in ones hands at the very idea of a woman wearing stockings and suspenders as opposed to tights (pantyhose).
And pantyhose, are tights, while I am on.
highway is a motorway
Motorways are the biggest roads and are numbered. There are also dual carriageways.
living room is called a lounge (though what exactly would what we call a lounge be?)
Class, I knew it would rear its ugly head sooner or later.
A smart (as in upper or upper middle class) person would never refer to their living room as a lounge. They would raise one eyebrow and comment that lounges are only in public places. Here's a brief guide to the downstairs rooms:
Living room: Drawing Room or Sitting Room for the posh. Living Room for the middle class. Lounge for the vulgar.
Lounges properly only exist in hotels, or airports.
Drawing room is the grandest term.
middle of nowhere is called the back of beyond We'd use both terms.
moron is called a berk Or a prat, or a pillock, or a plonker (which also means the male member). Fuckwit. Twit. Wazzock. Twonk. Twerp. Dickhead.
Odd the way stupidity and masculine seem to go so easily together.
tape is called sellotape (hence the spellotape I guess) Mainly because the leading brand name is Sellotape. Also usable is sticky tape.
Tape on its own can mean a number of tapes:
Duck (duct) tape. Masking tape. Insulating tape.
popsicle is an ice lolly Or just lolly. The term ice is implied anyway.
raincoat is a mac (short of Mackintosh the Scotsman who invented it I believe) That's right. We also use mac, and raincoat.
rent is to hire
This is complex. We rent stuff too. Like houses, cars and tv sets. To hire implies for a finite time, like if I wanted to hire a piece of equipment that was not really worth buying. I'd hire a carpet steamer. Or hire a cultivator to turn over my garden.
sausage and potatoes are bangers and mash
Yes, but the potatoes must be mashed. Or as you folk might say "creamed". Served with homemade onion gravy, and with quality pork sausages this is actually fit for a king.
stupid is gormless or daft
Or: dim, barmy, dozy.
pussy is called a fanny (which is kinda funny when you consider a fanny over here is an ass… boy did I think a male friend was into the wrong thing when we got drunk one night in Vegas and started talking about crap like that)
We also use the C word, though with less of a pejorative mood than you do. In the US that word is rude as it denotes a disregard of the female. It is less so over here.
Fanny is also the standard short form of the female name, Frances. It's rarely used now, because of the connotation with the female bits.
I recall hearing these lines in a play:
"Has the Doctor seen her, Fanny?"
"Yes, and he said there wasn't much hope."
To the sounds of suppressed sniggering laughter throughout the auditorium. Mine included.
And my favorite word of all is fuckwit… which well I don’t think we Americans really have a term that comes close to that other than asshole.
It's a great insult. Though if truth be told, I use asshole, too. I like US slang, particularly when insulting, because it is rich, gutsy and ballsy. "Watch where you're going, Asshole" has ten times the punch of "Watch where you're going, Arsehole." I suspect it is because the stress hits the first syllable in Asshole, and sound more forceful. |
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Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony ~ Monty Python and the Holy Grail |
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| Razzberry |
| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 2:02 pm |
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Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 82
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Ah, well. Since we're doing this...
A suitable alternative for 'pussywhipped'?
and, moving back into the realm of the G-rated...
The kind of meal that would carry the connotation of someone who doesn't have the money to spend on trivialties like food. If I were making the statement that 'I've taken my turn living off ramen noodles', everyone would get that I meant I've been dead broke. Equivalent?
(to put it into context, Lupin, as we see him at the beginning of book three, might well think that shepherd's pie is a veritable feast compared to the ... that he'd gotten used to) |
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| azazello |
| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 3:41 pm |
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Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Posts: 183
Location: Northern UK
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Hen-pecked.
And I have extensive experience of poverty eating, being a single parent:
"Oh, well, looks like it's bread and cheese all next week, and if things get really bad, bread without the cheese."
or:
"Mock chicken for next week!"
"Mock chicken?"
"Yes, the sort that still has the shell on it."
The point being here that when you are broke, you eat purely for fuel purposes. That means carbs, carbs and more carbs. I can actually feed me and my daughter for Ł5 for a week. It goes like this:
Large bag of potatoes.
Large tub of butter or margerine.
An industrial block of cheddar cheese.
Bag of porridge oats.
Milk.
Bag of sugar.
Porridge for breakfast, and it might be made without milk towards the end of the week.
Toast for lunch. Or cheese sandwiches.
Baked potatoes for dinner. With butter, cheese, and you want to hike the budget up to Ł6, serve with baked beans.
/ot poverty recollections. We did this several times after we finally kicked the insignificant other out. |
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Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony ~ Monty Python and the Holy Grail |
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| Vocalion |
| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:16 am |
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Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 5
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Dear Dr Az,
Could you please explain what the term "tidy bird" means? Is it a compliment or an insult?
Also, can you suggest some insulting names that one might call a woman? Not necessarily of a sexual nature, but just rude, in general. (I am writing a Jarvey scene.)
Thanks! |
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| deus-ex-maria |
| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 4:13 am |
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Joined: 10 Mar 2005
Posts: 12
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www.peevish.co.uk/slang is an awesome source for, well, UK slang.
Beyond definitions, it gives region and time frames, as well as origins on quite a few words and phrases. |
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| skybyrd |
| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 1:51 am |
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Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 13
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Is there a different british term for bedjacket?
For those who don't know, it's a short robe type covering, that goes over your nightgown, for people who are in the bed for long periods of time. |
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| azazello |
| Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 8:03 pm |
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Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Posts: 183
Location: Northern UK
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I regret to say I have never heard the term "Tidy Bird" before.
Context?
As for bedjacket - I'd use "bedjacket" - it's got connotations with sickness and old ladies. |
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Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony ~ Monty Python and the Holy Grail |
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| Vocalion |
| Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 8:30 pm |
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Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 5
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I wrote a scene in which Snape became drunk and facetiously translated a Latin phrase as "Hello, toots". It came back from my beta with "toots" revised to "tidy bird". I questioned it and she said "toots" was too American and her British friend suggested "tidy bird". He said it was complimentary. I wasn't convinced, so I asked another friend who had lived in the U.K. and she said it was vulgar and men would only use it in conversation if they were certain that a woman wasn't listening.
That's the story of "tidy bird". I ended up rephrasing the Latin because I couldn't come up with a British synonym for "toots". |
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| azazello |
| Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 6:00 am |
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Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Posts: 183
Location: Northern UK
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| Try "Hello ducky" instead. That's facetious and ever so slightly camp. |
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Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony ~ Monty Python and the Holy Grail |
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| skybyrd |
| Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 5:55 pm |
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Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 13
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azazello wrote:
As for bedjacket - I'd use "bedjacket" - it's got connotations with sickness and old ladies.
Thanks! I am editing my WIP, and I ran across this word. Its one that I've always used, but wasn't sure if it was used across the pond.  |
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| mouseII |
| Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 1:42 am |
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Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 76
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Dear Dr. Az , (  )
Is the word "snooping" (meaning to pry into another's affairs or otherwise fish for information) an Americanism? Should I use "nosing" or "nosing around" instead, a la Winky's comment in Goblet of Fire ("You is nosing...")?
It's too late for me to change my festival entry now, but I was just curious as to whether I'd made a big boo-boo there, using the word "snooping" instead of "nosing".
Respectfully and non-Britishly yours,
mouse |
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