Sycophant Hex ~ View topic - American Wizardry

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< The Common Room ~ American Wizardry - A question and a dare

Sparrow

Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:47 pm

Joined: 05 Feb 2005 Posts: 13 Location: The Wheat Fields of Kansas

Yes, yes, yes. The International Wizard Statute of Secrecy. sigh

Like several others have pointed out, Americans tend to go their own way (for good or bad). Statutes are laws (duh) and laws have loop holes. Example: It is illegal to grow cannabis in the US, but you can buy hemp clothing made in the US. There has to be an import loophole.

Couldn't American wizards/witches have found the loopholes?

Also laws are subject to interprataion. As Clinton said, "Define what it is". The European nations may define the Statutes literally, and the Americans may have a little more loose definitions. During the 1800s practicing magic on any level was suicidal, now there is less of a grab the pitchforks and tourches mentality, so people might be a little more open, lenient (cant find the right word). Laws evolve with the society.

Another issue with the Statutes is inforcability. In such a large country, can such strict codes of conduct be inforced. Distances, manpower, does every little violation matter. Kinda like arresting people for smoking pot at a Greatful Dead concert. There would be mayham. Not worth the trouble.

Sorry, I never ment to imply obvious, open and blatant "wand waving". More like "magic" shows. (Think David Copperfield) and "charmed" items. I doubt that any wizarding society would allow muggles in general know what they are. But that doesn't mean that they would be hidden, or in decline. American Wizards would try to protect and expand their social, moral, economic cultures.

Sincere thanks to Liquidscissors for trumping my point (sniff, pout). Now I have to rebuttal. Sophierom, just wanted you to know that not all of us square state people are cultureless neanderthals that the popular media makes us out to be. Heck, my mobil home hasen't been hit by a tornado in weeks. Wink

Thats all for now.

sophierom

Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:17 pm

Joined: 08 Jan 2005 Posts: 24 Location: Cambridge, MA

Sparrow wrote:

Sophierom, just wanted you to know that not all of us square state people are cultureless neanderthals that the popular media makes us out to be. Heck, my mobil home hasen't been hit by a tornado in weeks. Thats all for now.

Lol!

Having lived in red states for much of my life, I believe you! My parents, aunts, uncles and sister all live in the South still. And none of their trailers have been hit with tornados, either! Very Happy

Seriously, I don't think red state residents (whether Muggle or Wizard) are cultureless or stupid. I do think, based on my own experiences in the South, that they are generally more conservative and that they tend to have a common set of values about religion, lifestyle, and culture. This has its positive aspects (tight-knit community) and its negative aspects (tendency toward conformity). However, as you correctly pointed out, not all of small town America is the same. A fic writer trying to depict small town wizarding America would have to keep that in mind, so thanks highlighting that.

Best,
Sophie

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snarkypants

Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 10:10 pm

Joined: 08 Jan 2005 Posts: 14 Location: Texas, USA

Sophierom wrote:

And none of their trailers have been hit with tornados, either!

Heh. We all know that it's Oklahoma that has the real problem with that!

Ducking, etc.

deus-ex-maria

Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:03 pm

Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 12

Here's my take on this:

I think wizarding government in America would be more regionally based, centered around magical 'hot spots' such as Salem, Massachusetts, New Orleans, sections of the Appalachian Mountains, Window Rock, Arizona and Santa Cruz or Berkeley, CA. I believe America to be too geographically large and the magical populace too small to be effectively governed under a central rule, although there may be a federal oversight committee to regulate thing like commerce between the separate regions. The US government would almost certainly not be involved in governing Magicals. Staying hidden from the US Gov. would be a matter of survival, the potential for exploitation or possible concentration or extermination is too great to risk involvement.

Schooling would likely take place in such hot spots. Children living outside of these communities would either be boarded at school, travel by magical means or be homeschooled.

American mythology and folklore is full of magical creatures and beings, from thunderbirds and chupacabras to hoopsnakes and squonks. Perhaps Sasquatch and the skunk ape are magical beings, and the grey aliens of the southwest and their crop circles have already been described by Rowling as mooncalves. Intelligent Gatormen might roam the swamps of the gulf coast states. The Mothman, various swamp monsters and the Jersey Devil could be treated in a manner similar to manticores in the UK. Could the Sidehill Gouger be the American version of the Crumple-Horned Snorkack?

Herbology in the Americas would follow similar lines as agriculture. European settlers would learn how to identify, grow and use native plants from the Native people, as well as which European plants could be adapted to grow in American climates. Potions would naturally follow this trend, with potions being adapted or borrowed from the Natives or redesigned to make use of available materials.

Culture and customs in America would probably be as different in the Wizarding World as they are in the muggle one. We know Americans follow Quodpot and that Quidditch is gaining popularity, but might they have developed other sports that lack a world wide following?

American witches and wizards would almost certainly eat different foods than their British counterparts, as well as speak a different magical jargon. Terms would come from French, Spanish, Creole, Native languages, German, Japanese, Italian, Mandarin, Yiddish, Portuguese, etc. as well as English, Latin and Greek. This diversity of language would be reflected by a much greater number (although not necessarily variety) of charms, curses and spells. There would be a greater variety of divination techniques, and multiple runic-style languages as well. American wizarding slang would also reflect this.

Culture is diverse and regional, as well as separated to some degree along ethnic lines. Like attracts like, and the disparate communities reflect the ethnicity of the area, with whites congregating towards the northern communities and creating Americanized proxies of European Culture, and non whites to the south and southwest, with Asian and Hispanic populations predominant on the west coast. The treatment of muggles and muggleborns would vary with the values of the respective communities.

Floo travel might not be as popular in warmer climates like Florida or Arizona as it is in the north. Apparition between far flung areas would likely take place in skips and jumps, with safe points set up across the continent for travelers to appear, rest, and then Disapparate again. A similar system might exist to streamline owl post, and other methods of mail might be used as well.

Concentrations of magical energies prevent the use of electricity and electrical devices, so such devices in these areas would be rare. Any modern muggle devices such as cell phones or computers would only be present in the homes of isolated magicals who had 'gone muggle', or be novelties in the home of a hobbyist or collector.

Overall, you have a loose network of individual nation states, each with their own distinct culture, dialect and value system, operating under a federal oversight committee that represents the states in international politics. America's place in international arenas is secondary, as none of the resources that make muggle America a superpower (population, land, raw material) carry the same importance to the Wizarding World. America's role in international politics would be similar to the role of muggle America prior to the First World War.

sophierom

Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 4:02 pm

Joined: 08 Jan 2005 Posts: 24 Location: Cambridge, MA

deus-ex-maria wrote:

Overall, you have a loose network of individual nation states, each with their own distinct culture, dialect and value system, operating under a federal oversight committee that represents the states in international politics. America's place in international arenas is secondary, as none of the resources that make muggle America a superpower (population, land, raw material) carry the same importance to the Wizarding World. America's role in international politics would be similar to the role of muggle America prior to the First World War.

Interesting. I like how this takes into account the importance of regional diversity within the U.S. Do you think that, despite this loose confederation of nation states, there would be witches and wizards pushing for national unity and expansion (as there were in the 19th century Muggle U.S. history)?

Also, you mention that population, land and raw materials don't carry the same importance in the Wizarding World. This raises an interesting question: what does make a Wizarding nation a superpower? Could there be such a thing in the Wizarding world? Since magic is supposedly based on will, power, and knowledge, could any one nation have a monopoly on that? Now, for potions, resources (potions ingredients) might actually be important. Hmm, I'll have to think about this some more. Other thoughts about the role of resources and population in the Wizarding World?

Best,
Sophie

_________________
Feel free to check out my livejournal page, which, I'll be honest, is a bunch of silly rambling, but just in case you like silly rambling: Completely Lost

Dean Thomas

Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 7:16 am

Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 2

I actually have a fic devoted to this world in the Chaos archive (Patrick Thatcher and the Colonist's Compass)

The Magical government in the UK mirrors that of the Muggle government and I feel the same thing happens in the US. There is the central government and the local, state governments.

History: The Salem Witch trials occured when new wizard colonists used magic around Muggle areas figuring that there less strict regulations in the Colonies. With Obliviators and well-placed wizards, actual wizards were kept safe, but Muggles were blamed. Needless to say, the United States Republic of Magic was shortly thereafter created.

Floo and Apparition are still viable methods of travel, but the use of Portkeys have increased in the States.

Owls won't travel across the US when sending letters, for longer distances, they'll carry the letter to an Owl Post Office and the letter is passed from owl to owl until it reaches the recipient.

madjh

Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 9:12 am

Joined: 23 Nov 2005 Posts: 4 Location: Rudderless, in the Black.

Very interesting. I don't suppose I have much add so much as a question. I would envision long distance Apparition as being either too difficult or impossible, but I don't think wizards would stand for slow Muggle forms of travel. So, how would a wizard travel across the Atlantic, from America to England? Is there maybe some form of magical tavel conduit that is set up for such a puropose? Could any wizard use it any old time, or would they have to pay? What about customs and passports?

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Diana

Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 10:40 am

Head Moderator Joined: 04 Jan 2005 Posts: 116

Quote:

JKR talks about this in QTA. It states that in the past magical individuals would travel across the Atlantic much like Muggles did; in other words, they travelled by ship. It also states that cross-Atlantic Apparition is entirely possible; however, it is both very dangerous and extremely difficult. Broomsticks have also been flown across the Atlantic, and are, on occasion, used for cross-Atlantic travel. Magical carpets are a possibility as well, even though they are banned in the UK (see GOF) they are legal in other magical regions.

I would imagine that most witches and wizards travel by plane, much like Muggles do. We know that they often use Muggle transport in London (the tube, taxis, cars, etc., etc.) and Hogwarts students even use the Muggle invention of the train to get to and from school each year (although, I will conceed that the Hogwarts Express is more likely than not enhanced magically).

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Poultrygeist

Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 5:00 am

Joined: 27 Nov 2005 Posts: 3 Location: Hibernating Under 32 Feet of Snow

One of the things that I really like about fantasy books like Harry Potter is that they are set in a world very much like the one I live in. And they make me look at my own world a little differently. While I do understand the difference between reality and make-believe, they help me remember that there are layers of perspective and understanding that I have not yet uncovered.

Which brings me to the topic at hand --- wondering about my American neighbors. What if my neighbor is really a witch? I think she might be. My tomatoes are planted right next to hers where our yards adjoin, but hers are beautiful and mine are pathetic. I think maybe she has a magic wand concealed in her hand-grubber.

I live in a small rural town. There is a fairly strong home-schooling community here, and I think that must be how the witches and wizards in our area school their youth.

There is also a very strong folk-music community. I think perhaps our wizards are tapping into a bardic (is that a word?) magic that the British wizards have shunned. They use music to weave their spells, and the youth are trained in folk instruments. Fiddle and mandolin are particularly effective, but many have found that they are able to get good effects out of both hammer and mountain dulcimers. Some very talented musicians are able to weave magical spells using banjos. As with wands, the instrument chooses the wizard. Musical spells are particularly useful for affecting large groups of people, and amplifying enchantment spells.

Out here in the woods the line between Muggles and Wizards is blurred somewhat. While there are very strict laws regarding secrecy and restriction of underage magic, our wide geographical area and low population density make these laws difficult to enforce. When pressed for explanation about their odd habits, American wizards usually refer to the Muggle Constitution and claim their rights to Freedom of Expression, and Free Exercise of Religion. It is not uncommon for American Muggles to mistake wizards for Wiccans, Amish, Hippies, and Bleeding-Heart Liberals.

Wizard laws are subject to some variation by state. Although increasingly the American Wizarding Entourage (AWE) is pressing for standardization of laws and various guidlines, regional oversight committees have largely been successful at maintaining their autonomy.

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liquidscissors

Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 5:04 am

Moderator Joined: 27 Dec 2004 Posts: 164

I generally refuse to read anything that based on American wizardy, as ineviatably it always decsends into 'British wizards are so backward, hur hur hur, watch how much more spectacular/well organised/enlightened/________ the Yanks are!'.

I'm sure there are exceptions, but I still have no interest in reading nationalistic chest-beating, be it with or without wands.

Zia

Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 10:53 am

Joined: 29 Apr 2005 Posts: 19 Location: Den Haag

And the worst thing is, that most of the writers of American wizardry have no idea about Britain at all. It usually makes me grind my teeth and ever so grateful there is a backspace to hit.

Poultrygeist

Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:20 pm

Joined: 27 Nov 2005 Posts: 3 Location: Hibernating Under 32 Feet of Snow

Zia wrote:

And the worst thing is, that most of the writers of American wizardry have no idea about Britain at all. It usually makes me grind my teeth and ever so grateful there is a backspace to hit.

Please forgive me if I've mistaken your meaning, but this isn't the sense that I've gotten from this discussion thread. It seemed to me that the initial question and ensuing discussion was more aimed at how could one write a good American wizard tale in the Potter 'verse without it turning into flag-waving nationalism?

Readers of many nationalities have been deeply affected by Rowling's stories. There are themes and characters that cross international boundaries. Many fanfiction writers are drawn to the "What if it were my country?" scenario. I would be very interested to read a Potter 'verse fanfic set in the rich cultural settings of Sweden, or Deepest Africa, or China, or Peru, or *gasp* America. I think the point is that everyone has a rich cultural history that they can tap into much in the way Rowling has.

Question

How can we help writers tap into their own cultural experiences in meaningful ways rather than suffering through another pale imitation of the original?

crazy_kat

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:02 pm

Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 9

I see American Wizards being much like American Muggles - the "Bigger, Faster, Better" attitude would prevail - Wizarding teens in the ninties would have listened to Nirvana and Pearl Jam, and there would be Wizarding Hippies and Wizarding Conservatives.

I think Wizarding Americans would have the same regional attitudes that Muggle Americans have - some would be pro-this or that, others would be against it - some would live on the fringes of society, some would embrace it.

I do think that the structure JKR has set out for Wizarding Britain - mirroring governments, a Wizarding school - would also be found in other countries. Americans tend less to send kids away for highschool, and so I think that magic would be taught at home, with tests and standards set by the Wizarding government. Wizarding children would be sent to muggle primary and secondary schools. Although there may not be a need for a Wizarding University in Britain, I think there would be a need in America, so that Witches and Wizards could specialize in things that maybe their parents had little knowledge about.

We know that concentrated areas of magic make Muggle devices go haywire, and so I think that many Wizarding people in America would have the ability to use both the more arcane things (Quills, spells for certain things, floo...) and modern things. Cell phones at a Wizarding University? No. An area nearby which allowed these things to work? Yes.

I don't think that there would be large concentrations of Wizarding folk in special areas - they'd try and blend in with Muggle neighbors. Isolated communities would pop up in areas where either there was little chance of Muggles finding it, or in areas where the Wizarding society could be passed off as a commune.

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