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| azazello |
 Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 12:01 pm |
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Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Posts: 183
Location: Northern UK
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I have to admit, I think the movies bear a lot of blame for bad fanfic, not least the way they've suified or stuified certain characters, bashed others, and totally thrown away everything that is good with some others.
Here's some of the worst excesses.
1. Heading the list is Hermione Sue. I liked Emma Watson in movie one. She had the right sort of voice and smartarsed attitude for Hermione. She was way too pretty, but I could deal with that. Her slightly posh voice is exactly how I picture Hermione sounding in the movies.
Movie two made me nervous, what with the big flying to embrace Harry bit at the end. Hermione would not do that, and if she did, Harry would have been hideously embarrassed. If they had done that in the books, the Slytherins would have poked fun at them forever and a day.
Oh, and she got Ron's explanation of what a Mudblood was, too. I was annoyed by the fact that a lot of other characters' lines and actions went to Emma.
But the real Hermione rape took place in POA. Steve Kloves freely admits he adores Hermione. She is his favourite character. Now, that alarms me, because personally I'd prefer to see the scriptwriting in the hands of a devoted Harry fan, or better still, someone who likes ALL the characters. Now, in all the closing adventure sequences in the books, it's pretty much Harry the hero, with the other two helping. Not in POA. Hermione has all the strategy, and all the big ideas. She saves lives, she fools werewolves. She flies around trees. She makes un-Hermione like comments about her own hair.
2. Ron. Ron is a wonderful character. He's loyal, he's good, and he's a truly kind person. He was Harry's first and best friend. In the books.
In the movies - notably the second one onwards - he's a complete idiot.
He hates spiders - that's canon, but he's prepared to face them in book two. There's nothing in canon that states he spends half his life with his jaw stupidly agape. He's not hugely academic, but he is a fine chess player and can play well enough to save his and his friends' lives. I consider myself fairly intellectual, but I have to say I've never solved a newspaper chess problem in my life. Ron could.
Any bravery shown by Ron in book 3, was passed to... you goddit. Hermione Sue.
3. Everyone is too pretty. Snape is not ugly enough. Rickman doesn't even have the greasy hair. Lucius is made into some kind of hot sexgod (and I will concede that Jason Isaacs is one cute looking guy). Draco is cutified too. Hermione has curls and straight teeth. Which means we can kiss goodbye to the wonderful "I see no difference" line in movie 4.
4. Snape rape. You knew I'd get there eventually, didn't you? I argue with another canon thumper that Snape is very important. She says he is not. I counter with the fact that he is the only adult canon with more than one chapter with his name on the top.
Movie one: We never get the clear idea that Snape might be the bad guy the way we did in book one. I KNEW he wasn't after the stone when I read it, but that's because I could see what the author was up to. My daughter was convinced he'd be smirking and demanding the stone from Harry at the end.
Movie two: Book 2 is not heavily Snape-ish. But again we are robbed of his wonderful scene when he is the one who intercepts Ron and Harry on their late arrival. "And maybe he's waiting to hear why you two weren't on the train..."
Movie three: This is the book that essentially catapults Snape from being an unpleasant fact of school life into a starring part in the series. The grudges, the anger, the thirst for vengeance, the troublesome backstory. None of which is expounded on in POA the movie, because ten cineminutes is wasted while Hermione gets a ride from the Whomping Willow.
It's too late, now. Essentially, the backstory issue, which is a unifying theme of the saga, and surely was not put in for no reason, is lost.
God I hate that man Kloves.
And the pernicious influence on fanfic? Blame the bloody movies. All those stupid Rickman fantasies with tango scenes. All those crappy Hermione Sue stories a la Roman Holiday, where SHE is the one who defeats Voldemort.
And do not even let me think of the impact of Ralph Fiennes as Voldemort. Ralph is one of the most beautiful human beings on this planet. He was even angelically evil as Amon Goeth in Schindler's List (horrid, but beautiful). I shudder at the effect on fanfic. And if it is true as rumoured, that Alan and Maggie are doing a tango scene in GOF, I may seek asylum in a country where Potter is outlawed. |
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| Diana |
| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:37 am |
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Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 116
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Quote: But the real Hermione rape took place in POA. Steve Kloves freely admits he adores Hermione. She is his favourite character. Now, that alarms me, because personally I'd prefer to see the scriptwriting in the hands of a devoted Harry fan, or better still, someone who likes ALL the characters. Now, in all the closing adventure sequences in the books, it's pretty much Harry the hero, with the other two helping. Not in POA. Hermione has all the strategy, and all the big ideas. She saves lives, she fools werewolves. She flies around trees. She makes un-Hermione like comments about her own hair.
I think that what annoyed me the most about this was that it was, in canon and per JKR's mouth, book three when Harry really broke out. What I mean to say is that, up until book three, I would go so far as to say, okay yes, Hermione probably would have kicked the snot out of Harry in the 'who is the most powerful', but as JKR herself stated, all of that changed in book three. In movie three, which I will admit was my favourite, but that had more to do with AC's visual feel, and less to do with the overall storyline, Hermione is still soaring, and Harry looks like the ultimate Squib. I'm just saying...
Ron. I couldn't agree with you more. In fact, Hermione seems to get everyone's lines. Especially in Hagrid's hut in movie two. Hagrid and Ron just sat there nodding like two extra rejects who had somehow managed to stumble onto the sound stage and into the scene. In the book, all of the dialogue, for the most part, in that scene belonged to Hagrid and Ron. |
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| OriginalityPreferred |
| Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 3:32 am |
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Joined: 30 Dec 2005
Posts: 6
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*cheers*
Been a while since you posted this, but I just found it.  And I totally agree with you. Hearing someone say they love the movies makes me want to something violent, like pound my head into the nearest wall. For all the reasons you've mentioned, and more.
It's not fans of the books making the movies, it's people out for a profit who've grabbed onto a phenomenon. Citing 'artistic style' they add in expanded actions scenes, and extraneous details (why are Beauxbatons and Durmstrang no longer co-ed?). Then when the fans complain that their favorite bits are missing, we get 'lack of time' thrown back in our faces. Makes me so mad to see Aunt Marge float away into the sky when that time could have been used for MWPP backstory, or the fallout with Hermione over the Firebolt. Huge plothole, that is - they only had one Quidditch match that year, then?.
Enough of my venting. Just wanted to add a voice to the chorus, and say you're not alone! |
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| sani |
| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:21 am |
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Joined: 19 Jul 2005
Posts: 8
Location: USA
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| You have to understand that the movies are not the books. They are simply based on the JKR books, they are not the exact replica of the books. I have to say that I enjoyed the movies, the facts that you stated are true, but I found the movies enjoyable. And dont diss Alan Rickman he is the most amazing man alive, and I think he does Snape very well, true his hair is not greesy enough. (Yes I am a Rickmaniac) lol. I hate Ron personally, from both the books and the movies, and Emma is way to pretty to be Hermoine. Gambons DD is totally pissed me off, but It is not the actors fault, it is the director. They are given directions in which way the director wants them to play the part. My point being after the rant is that you have to watch the movies as movies, that is the only way you can enjoy them. |
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| Diana |
| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:08 pm |
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Joined: 04 Jan 2005
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Quote: You have to understand that the movies are not the books. They are simply based on the JKR books, they are not the exact replica of the books. I have to say that I enjoyed the movies, the facts that you stated are true, but I found the movies enjoyable. And dont diss Alan Rickman he is the most amazing man alive, and I think he does Snape very well, true his hair is not greesy enough. (Yes I am a Rickmaniac) lol. I hate Ron personally, from both the books and the movies, and Emma is way to pretty to be Hermoine. Gambons DD is totally pissed me off, but It is not the actors fault, it is the director. They are given directions in which way the director wants them to play the part. My point being after the rant is that you have to watch the movies as movies, that is the only way you can enjoy them.
1. True, they are not the books; however, I seriously doubt that anyone would be so illogical as to think otherwise.
I could list a page full of movies that were ALL not the books, but at least tried to stay true to the spirit of the books. I do not believe the gripe with most is so much that the movies are nothing like the books – which, incidently, they really aren't; no use in arguing otherwise – but, rather, that the movies do not capture – at least! – the spirit of the books.
Hermione is not the leading character in the books. Not in book one, not in book two, nor book three or four, or, incidently enough, ANY of the other remaining yet to be filmed books.
I could go around and around on this point, but everything that is true that needs to be said has already been said by Az, so I'll simply refer you to her original post on the matter.
2. Alan Rickman IS a horrible Snape. He's too old. He's too fat. He's too jowly. Old, fat and jowly...hmm, for a 36 year old, skinny character...wow, I can see why someone would take exception to him. Rickman has the voice and that's about it. Do I think he's a great actor? Of course, I do. Do I think he's a good Snape? Good God, no. Sorry.
3. With the exception of shoving Harry around in book four (b/c Dumbledore would never manhandle a student!) I've loved Gambon's Dumbledore. Dumbledore is not all fluffy bunny, nicey-nicey. The late (and absolutely amazing) Richard Harris was a good book one and two Dumbledore, to be sure, but as we learn more about Dumbledore, as the series progresses, we learn that he isn't all grandfatherly and cuddly as we wish him to be in the earlier books. He has more edge to him and I believe that Gambon – stepping, graciously, into an impossiblity at an impossibly difficult time, I'm sure – has done amazing work with what he's been given. |
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| knight-shade |
| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:50 pm |
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Joined: 18 Apr 2006
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[quote="Diana"]Quote: 3. With the exception of shoving Harry around in book four (b/c Dumbledore would never manhandle a student!) I've loved Gambon's Dumbledore.
I completely agree with you. I remember nudging my friend and asking her why Dumbledore was attacking Harry. It didn't make sense to me that Dumbledore would do that to any student, let alone Harry.
I know that not everything from the books can be squashed into a 2 hour film I was disapointed by film 3. There was no backstory of the Marauders. And, if I remember correctly, no mention of MWPP making the map. They didn't even seem to say why Harry's patronus shape was so significant.
I was annoyed in all four films with Daniel Radcliffe's eyes. They should have been green. A pair of coloured contacts could have easily rectified that but no, his eyes are still blue. They better hope there isn't going to be some major plot twist with those eyes. Like some sort of significance with Voldemort having red eyes (Gryffindor colours) and Harry having green eyes (Slytherin colours).
As for Snape...well, in my opinion, he sounds and acts how I imagine Snape acting and sounding. But doesn't look a thing like canon Snape would. |
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| Mimmy |
| Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 7:50 pm |
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Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 29
Location: Azkaban
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Quote:
I was disapointed by film 3. There was no backstory of the Marauders. And, if I remember correctly, no mention of MWPP making the map. They didn't even seem to say why Harry's patronus shape was so significant.
Unfortunately this seems to happen in every movie and as a Snape fan I have to say, that it seems to apply to his part quite a bit. In the first movie no one told us why Snape saved Harry. In movie three no one bothered explaining the history between Snape and the Marauders and in movie four the connection between Snape and Karkaroff doesn't become clear. And what happened to the revelation that Snape is working as a spy? In the book Sirius, Molly and Harry are in the room when Dumbledore "asks" Snape to rejoin the death eaters.
Seriously, doesn't anyone think that this kind of information may be important for the other movies? In my opinion this will make it difficult to explain certain "relationships" - for example why Snape hates Harry.
On a positive note - I do like the fact that movie 4 is quite fast paced and dark. One of the few things I don't like ...Ralph Fiennes as Voldemort...he's way too good looking for that (and no amount of make up seems to be able to change that) and the fact that some scene do look rather familiar.
~Mimmy |
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| memory |
| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:10 pm |
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Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 40
Location: Italy
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Just to add my opinion to the chorus: yes, the movies are "unwatchable"! (do you say "unwatchable" in English, as "unspeakable"? I haven't got my vocabulary, sorry!). Joking aside, I believe the movies have been conceived as very long TV commercials, sometimes so difficult to follow for people that are not acquainted with HP (see my husband, he hates them and he works in the movie field). A lot of special effects and nothing inside... I mean the real story, not only the stupid gags between Harry and Ron. And Azazello is so true, I couldn't believe Hermione got Ron'explanation of what a Mudblood is and so many other lines!
Isn't JKR supervising anymore? I had been told that she was watching closely all the productions!
Instead, I would propose: why not a beautiful and LONG TV series, like Smallville for Superman?
Attention, please, I'm not saying that Smallville is fantastic, but at least in a TV serial there is time to investigate the plot, to analyze better some of the characters, to enjoy the development of a story.
Well, just a thought. Perhaps in the future... |
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| liquidscissors |
| Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:41 am |
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memory wrote: Instead, I would propose: why not a beautiful and LONG TV series, like Smallville for Superman?
I believe Smallville is oft referred to as 'fanfiction on television'. |
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| memory |
| Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:20 am |
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Joined: 07 Apr 2006
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Location: Italy
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Sorry, this means you agree with me or are you just correcting my terrible English? I'm not offended, it's just to see if somebody else would like to see an "extended movie" on TV.
(And yes, the correct word was probably "dictionary" and who knows how many other mistakes I made.... My, my, I will go and iron my hands immediately!) |
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| Help! I like cartoons! |
| Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 9:15 pm |
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Joined: 15 May 2006
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Hey Memory!
What about a "cartoons" series? 
Just imagine how many wonderful special effects!!!
And probably faces and places would be more in canon...
OK, just dreaming 
Laura |
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| bethanyblueberry |
| Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:59 am |
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Joined: 11 Aug 2006
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And Lupin. Lupin is meant to have greying hair, shabby clothes and NO MOUSTASE! (sorry for my spelling).
And what was all that on the bridge when he was talking to Harry? It made it sound like he was in love with her. |
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| bthekewl |
| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:05 pm |
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Joined: 14 Sep 2006
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Location: Yer mom's face USA
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FINALLY! I finally a group of people who agree with me! I have been battling people who either don't care that the movies were wrong or never read the books!
I have to say, I was really dissapointed in the first movie. For an 11 year old girl who absolutely loved the book, then the movie is just wrong... I almost cried. (But now I've grown up abit more) I haven't seen the fourth one, not sure I want to.
Yeah, Hermione does seem to take away the show, maybe they should re-name her Hermione Potter and make Harry Harry Granger.  Or not.
I keep hearing this little voice in my mind that tells me, "Brittany, you are going to grow up and make the HP series into a delightful set of movies, like the Lord of the Rings, three hours long to put in all the important information..." |
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| LadyWhitehart |
| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:40 pm |
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Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 193
Location: New Jersey, USA
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| I think the problem with the movies is that the producer assume the viewers have read the books and know the backstory like Harry's Patronus, the Marauders, the connection between Snape and Karkaroff, and Snape's role as a spy. I enjoy the movies for what they are: really expensive, canon-based fanfiction. I will say GoF was my personal favorite of the movies, because it did have that '50's thriller' flavor to it. SS/PS was like reading a few pages, turning a few pages, and reading some more. CoS was OK except for SceneStealing!Hermione, and they could have had more fun with Lockhart's wardrobe--he could have been a bit more flashy. PoA was a bit 'shippy' for my tastes (not to mention the return of SceneStealing! Hermione,) but overall it was OK. Really, they all just need more Snape. |
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| thegreatsporkwielder |
| Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:10 pm |
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Joined: 29 Sep 2006
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Location: Leading my Spork Army to World Domination
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Heck yes to everything. When I was watching the movies, I kept thinking, "did they read the same HP books that I did? Because that's not how I remember it..."
It's very obvious that Hermione is Kloves' favorite character...I don't know if there's a scene of hers in the movie where she's not doing something Amazing, Spectacular, or Highly Intelligent. She's a teenage girl, for goodness sake!! Maybe he read some fanfic before making the movies....
While I adore Alan Rickman (he was so squee-worthy in Sense and Sensibility) I agree that he is far too old for Snape. Snape's only in his late 30's (early 40's at the oldest). My choice would have been....Adrien Brody, maybe? Still not ugly (but I for one would not want to look at an ugly Snape on a movie theater screen...so I can deal with a handsome Movie!Snape), but at least he's younger, skinny, and has the nose.
One of my biggest disappointments was Lockhart. I mean, come on! *sigh* So much to work with...and he fell flat.
I actually kinda liked Ralph Fienne's Voldemort. Although I don't see why they had HIM as opposed to anyone else since he had a ton of makeup on anyway.
*sigh* These are quite disappointing...while I'll probably keep watching them, I think I'll just read the books or some fanfic when I need my HP fix. |
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