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< The Ministry of Magic ~ Question regarding validation of chapters/requested changes |
Metamuse |
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 5:49 pm |
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Site Admin
Joined: 28 Nov 2004
Posts: 475
Location: USA
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Dopeydora,
I just want to agree with Az really, there is no reason to apologize for your question.
And also basically say, everything Az has said is true, we do try our best but we are humans.
If an Admin ever knows an author, and has a personal stake, they will usually withdraw themselves from anything to do with that author. I have done this myself. I gave all decisions to do with several authors to our Admin Mistress, Estrilda, because I know she is impartial where I may not be and do not wish to have my personal feelings cloud any decision that has repercussions on SH.
I want to thank Razzberry, Celisnebula, LariLee and Dopeydora for contributing to this thread so we hopefully cleared up any miscommunication that bound to happen. You all have my respect.
And of course, thank you to Diana, Liquidscissors and Azazello for answering the questions and hopefully clearing up a few things.
I would love if more authors would ask questions, we would be happy to answer them.
Thanks.
PS. If anyone does want to contact me my email address is: webmistress@sycophanthex.com
Sometimes I may take a few days to reply because I do work a full time job and have classes three nights a week. But I promise I will respond as soon as possible to any email I receive. |
_________________ MetaMuse
Wannabe Admin, but the other Admins kick me out of the sand box to play with the technical and managerial aspects of the site. |
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Max |
Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:41 pm |
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Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 17
Location: Germany
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Dear,
there's one line in your mail I couldn't swallow ...
azazello wrote: Loud shouting of "I am a published writer!" cuts no ice whatsoever with me. If this is the case, what is that person doing here? I am of the opinion that if they were a successful published writer, they'd be working on that.
I know I'm not the person you were talking about here, but: I'm a published writer and, if I may say so, one who's at least successful enough to make a living from it. Nevertheless I'm here - and not only because writing in English is some kind of "hobby" for me, but because writing fan fiction is my way to relax from doing the books I have to do for a living.
J.K. Rowlings and Stephen King as best selling authors can decide what they want to write. Other professionals can't. Take me for an example: I write mostly children's book and books about horses. I like it, no question. But just because I write children's books in which never more as a caste kiss can happen, I love to write NC-17 now and then. In former times I did so in German and published it with using a pseudonym. Yet when writing for publication, I'm always bound to what the publisher house thinks good for the market. For me this spoils the fun - and therefore I write fan fiction.
And I know I'm not the only professional writer doing so. I've made once a web magazine where a highly accomplished colleague of mine used to write jeers and short stories (using a pseudonym because his work there was so totally out of the line he was known for) just for his fun; I know of a pretty sucessful theatre author who wrote once something like fan fiction just for the fun of it.
So I don't published writers only stick to their paid work.
Yours
Max |
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azazello |
Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 3:48 pm |
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Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Posts: 183
Location: Northern UK
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What I meant was that even published authors can make mistakes. I'm well aware that there are pros writing fanfic. What I find irritating beyond belief in the validation of fic game, is that any author can insist that they are incapable of error, and they are a published writer and therefore have greater validity that mere amateurs. And that we devilspawn admin are not fit to suggest that they might have got a comma in the wrong place!
I know you aren't guilty of that, Max. Sadly some are, and at least one writer who howled electronic abuse at me, and told me I was an idiot becaue she had published work, was clearly only published in her imagination - or in a very avant garde field where punctuation as a science was clearly infra dig.
I apply the same rules to writers of whatever provenance. And I had my first submission to Fiction Alley rejected - and deservedly so, given the total snafu I made of the dialogue punctuation. It made me learn how to do it properly so no bad thing.
Some angry author, who has been politely (and my rejection letters are masterpieces of good manners, I assure anyone - I've even astounded folks who do not like me, at all) asked to make amendments, and starts shouting that they are a published author, even if they are called J K Rowling or Stephen King, will be just as politely asked to make the changes required please. If they explain why they think I am wrong, in a nice way, I will most assuredly go and check and get another admin to look too. |
_________________ Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony ~ Monty Python and the Holy Grail |
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Max |
Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:58 pm |
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Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 17
Location: Germany
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Dear,
azazello wrote: What I meant was that even published authors can make mistakes.
Really?
I've always thought that becoming infallible by publishing a book is what makes up for the lousy payment authors receives (at least in Germany).
After having had just half one hour of discussing the use of plusquamperfect (oops - I hope it's the same in English as in German) and my fondness for backflashes with my editor (and huuh - she could found a club with my beta who complained about that too) I'm once again at a point where I even would go further as you.
An author who wants to be taken seriously should always be aware that no text on earth is perfect and that there's no work which couldn't become better when overworked by a good editor.
My fondness of my work shows greatly in the way I handle the editing. For my "normal" books I have two editors at work: A friend of mine who reads the book while I'm writing it and who is after spelling mistakes, grammar things and plot holes and, when the book is finished, the editor in the publisher house who does all this once again.
If I want to show off with my writing or if I do something I'm really, really fond of, I use two editors more: My SO who's a great author himself and someone who's very much in details (he doesn't let slip one fact without checking it. He's worse as the notorious documentation department at the German magazine "Spiegel" which drove me always up the walls. From them it's said they would ask you for a chemical analysis when you write in an article that someone farted!) and a German colleague of mine who's style and sound I deeply admire.
To think that taking up critic would be "weakness", to think that one's work is perfect in the form one wrote it, is in my opinion not only highly unprofessional, but simply stupid. Goethe and Schiller edited each other's work, Thomas Mann didn't publish one line his wife hadn't read and commented (and as much as she admired her husband - she certainly wasn't someone who only praised him!) - and if they didn't find themselves too great for that, how could I find myself above of editing?
I think we agree totally in that. Authors who think themselves above editing are in my opinion idiots. Just so simple.
Yours
Max |
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phoenix |
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 3:21 am |
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Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Posts: 54
Location: California
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First off, I'd just like to say thanks for the hard work all of you do to ensure that there is quality fan fic here. I have been to numerous sites where I have started reading a story only to quit because of atrocious spelling or punctuation. Sometimes, the plot was interesting, but I couldn't get past the extra time of having to figure out what the true intent was. I don't have to worry about that here and it's nice.
I find it unbelievable that someone would think their work is perfect just because they are published and for that reason alone they are deserving of special treatment. I normally do very well with spelling and punctuation, but I still make mistakes. Heck, sometimes these mistakes skim past my betas. It happens. Don't take it personally and fix your mistakes. You're only human. Oh, and computer spell and grammar check, not perfect, not by a long shot. It won't catch homonyms or misspellings that spell another word, like form and from (one of my more frequent boo-boos). Oh, I've found misspellings in published novels before, so not even editors are perfect.
And to me, the fact that these people feel the need to lash out at the admins, is a sign of great immaturity and I would begin to wonder about their credentials. Every writer I've heard about was rejected countless times before someone decided to publish their work, so I would think s/he would have a thick skin regarding rejection.
Anyway, I'm more than happy to play by the rules here to keep the quality of the fan fic high. An a pox on anyone doesn't want to play. |
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wisteriarose |
Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 5:00 am |
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Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 5
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Please clarify the requirements for a poetry submission.
This is the only direct reference to poetry in the Submission Rules:
Quote: Poetry: Poetry must contain recognizable parts of the characters if posting at one of the character focused archives. If it is vague the Admins have the right to refer you to Chaos, original works archive, for posting it there.
This reference is found under "Length:"
Quote: Length: Chapter length must be at least five hundred (500 words) if it is a chaptered story. Short one-shot stories and drabbles are allowed to be less but must be at least one hundred (100) words.
After reviewing this section, this is the way I intepreted these rules:
1. A poem is treated in the same light as a story; therefore, it fulfill all the other submission requirements (all conventions, plot development, etc.).
2. If the poem falls under the category, "Short one-shot...drabbles," then it can be as few words as 100.
3. If a poem has more than one section, or "chapter" as it is called, it must have at least 500 words.
If I correctly interpreted the rules, then I still have one more question.
Why must a poetry section, or chapter, also contain at least 500 words?
For prose I can understand the 500 word minimum; however, poetry does not need as many words to express the same thought. Some of the best poems are only three lines and ten words or less.
Thank you,
wisteriarose |
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Metamuse |
Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 5:12 am |
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Site Admin
Joined: 28 Nov 2004
Posts: 475
Location: USA
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Quote: Why must a poetry section, or chapter, also contain at least 500 words?
For prose I can understand the 500 word minimum; however, poetry does not need as many words to express the same thought. Some of the best poems are only three lines and ten words or less.
Because if poetry is coming as in chapters they follow the same rules as the story chaptered rule we have.
I set the limit to chaptered stories/poems because anything under 500 words does waste bandwidth. Previously we didn't even allow anything under 500 words except poetry, and even if there was then more than one poem by an author we required them to be uploaded together to save bandwidth.
Thanks,
Webmistress |
_________________ MetaMuse
Wannabe Admin, but the other Admins kick me out of the sand box to play with the technical and managerial aspects of the site. |
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wisteriarose |
Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 5:42 am |
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Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 5
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Quote: I set the limit to chaptered stories/poems because anything under 500 words does waste bandwidth.
Oh, I understand now. Thank you.
-wisteriarose
Ask a question and you will feel stupid for five minutes; Never ask a question, and you will be ignorant forever. |
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snarkyroxy |
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:43 am |
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Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 7
Location: Adelaide, Australia
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I have a question to throw out to the Admins, which seems appropriate to this thread.
I've only recently started posting fic to SH and, first of all, would like to say that I'm very impressed with the validation process as I've experienced it. The Admin I've worked with so far has been absolutely fantastic.
Talking to someone else who has submitted fic to SH recently, there seemed to be some confusion about their rejection letter, and I hoped someone might be able to clarify a couple of things. I have read through both the submission guidelines and this thread, but couldn't find an answer.
The author in question received a rejection letter for the 2nd chapter of their story stating the following:
Our submission rules do not allow posting of a submission with more than six identified errors.
What confused me (and the author in question), is how these 'six errors' are determined. Is it six errors per a certain number of words, or six errors in a chapter, regardless of length? Six errors in a 1000-word chapter is quite a lot, and I understand a submission being rejected on those grounds. Six errors in a chapter of 8,000+ words, however, seems understandable.
Also, are only unique errors counted? For example, if you don't capitalise 'apparate' twice in a chapter, is that one or two errors?
Obviously punctuation errors would be unique in each instance, regardless of whether they are all, for example, missing commas.
Also in the same rejection letter, one of rules applying to the errors was Plot/Story Development and Language, however none of the errors listed seemed to involve a mistake of this nature.
Is it possible for the Admin to point out what, specifically, an author should work on? It is difficult for an author to understand what they need to change without some sort of explanation of where they went wrong.
Anyway, hopefully someone here will be able to answer the questions! (Or email me privately, if that is more appropriate.)
Cheers,
snarkyroxy |
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Metamuse |
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 5:53 pm |
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Site Admin
Joined: 28 Nov 2004
Posts: 475
Location: USA
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We do have a particular way of counting errors. Word count is not considered (usually).
As your example apparate isn't capitalized twice that is counted as one error. All punctuation (excluding commas except dialogue punctuation) is counted as one error per one instance. Commas are little bit more touchy, if the author misses several direct address commas that is considered one error. If they miss several introductory dependent phrases commas they are counted as one are combined.
Each misspelt word is counted as one error.
Now as for the Development/Plot part of the letter that is standard in all letters. We copy a few main important parts from the Submission Rules and incorporate it within our rejection letters.
Any other questions? |
_________________ MetaMuse
Wannabe Admin, but the other Admins kick me out of the sand box to play with the technical and managerial aspects of the site. |
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Max |
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 5:58 pm |
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Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 17
Location: Germany
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Hello,
webmistress wrote: We do have a particular way of counting errors. Word count is not considered (usually).
And that's why I'll probably never become a validated author. With me always having monster chapters with at least 8,000 words I almost always reach the six mistakes mark.
You know, I don't want to criticise your validation politic, but ... it would look a bit fairer to me if the length of a chapter would count too. |
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snarkyroxy |
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:36 pm |
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Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 7
Location: Adelaide, Australia
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webmistress wrote: Now as for the Development/Plot part of the letter that is standard in all letters. We copy a few main important parts from the Submission Rules and incorporate it within our rejection letters.
Any other questions?
Just one more
From the letters I've received, I understand that you copy the parts of the Submission Rules that are appropriate to the errors/issues being addressed in the rejection letter. (Correct me if I'm wrong)
The issue with the Development/Plot part was, while that part of the Submission Rules were copied into the rejection letter, no mention of any specific issues relating to Development/Plot were mentioned, which made it confusing for the author to know what they should be addressing: character development, plot development, ensnaring the reader, readability, confusing plot issues etc.
It would be helpful to the author, I believe, if the Admin was able to point out the area they needed to work on.
Thanks for clearing up those other issues.
snarkyroxy |
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Metamuse |
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 6:12 pm |
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Site Admin
Joined: 28 Nov 2004
Posts: 475
Location: USA
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Quote: You know, I don't want to criticise your validation politic, but ... it would look a bit fairer to me if the length of a chapter would count too.
If we might tweak the validation rules later but since this is a new policy we are still working out the minor bugs.
Quote: From the letters I've received, I understand that you copy the parts of the Submission Rules that are appropriate to the errors/issues being addressed in the rejection letter. (Correct me if I'm wrong)
The issue with the Development/Plot part was, while that part of the Submission Rules were copied into the rejection letter, no mention of any specific issues relating to Development/Plot were mentioned, which made it confusing for the author to know what they should be addressing: character development, plot development, ensnaring the reader, readability, confusing plot issues etc.
You misunderstood me.
Development/Plot part of the letter that is standard in all letters. We copy a few main important parts from the Submission Rules and incorporate it within our rejection letters.
It is not pointing out that there were Development/Plot errors, if there were the Admin would have pointed out the problem. |
_________________ MetaMuse
Wannabe Admin, but the other Admins kick me out of the sand box to play with the technical and managerial aspects of the site. |
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snarkyroxy |
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 10:23 pm |
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Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 7
Location: Adelaide, Australia
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webmistress wrote: You misunderstood me.
Development/Plot part of the letter that is standard in all letters. We copy a few main important parts from the Submission Rules and incorporate it within our rejection letters.
It is not pointing out that there were Development/Plot errors, if there were the Admin would have pointed out the problem.
Okay, that's where the confusion was. I thought any sections quoted specifically applied to the story/chapter in question, since Development/Plot hasn't appeared in any of the letters I've received for my own work, and also because the letter in question stated the following:
> The rules which apply to errors we
> found in your
> submission are listed below.
>
> - Plot/Story Development and Language: Plot/story
> development will be
> clear and concise. The language of the story must show
> reasonable
> development, fluency, and sophistication, with the SH
> audience of adult
> readers in mind.
I guess the confusion was in the wording, but thanks for taking the time to clear that up.
snarkyroxy |
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celeritas |
Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:13 pm |
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Joined: 01 Jul 2005
Posts: 11
Location: Manchester,UK
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Not entirely relevant... But Max, the plusquamperfekt is the pluperfect in English. I know because I've just been studying it, at great and boring length, and know little more about it now than I did before. Sorry if you already found that out.
celeritas x |
_________________ Severus Snape - Dark, and yet, Light. |
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