Sycophant Hex ~ View topic

Author

Message

< The Library ~ Consequences

Verity Brown

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 4:47 pm

Joined: 14 Mar 2005 Posts: 150 Location: Midwest USA

Just a little something I need to get off my chest....

I can't help wondering what the consequences of all this will be, for some.

I'm a grown woman with a family and a life, outside of all this. I'm also intelligent enough to have picked up and put together the subtle clues that the situation may not actually be as it now appears, so I have some meager hope to cling to in the face of all this. But I still have enough invested in this character that I feel pretty damned depressed at the thought that Joanne really might hate him enough to have made him truly, irredeemably evil. I can only imagine how hard that blow might hit others, with less to fall back on than I have.

I am, in fact, a little fearful that there will some very unhappy--perhaps even tragic--consequences, for some fans, of Joanne's apparent utter failure to understand a not-insignificant portion of her fan base. If that should happen....

Okay, please understand that this is spoken out of the bitterness of my own heart right now....

I think that, should such things happen, whether she has the decency to feel it or not, the guilt will be deserved.

Verity

Kherezae

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 5:20 pm

Joined: 16 Jul 2005 Posts: 29 Location: Maryland

I don't think she hates Snape, and I hope that his fanbase realizes that and doesn't take his seeming betrayal too hard. Jo has shown she believes in people redeeming themselves -- look at what little snots she made James and Sirius into as kids! But they're on the good side, too. We don't know much about James, but perhaps he was sorry for how they always treated Snape. Sirius wasn't, so much... And Draco, too -- he never showed any signs of being good, but JKR turned it around. Obviously he isn't a nice fluffy little bunny rabbit, but he didn't have it in him to kill. He was fiercely protecting his family. We could see he had some good in him, somewhere. So I don't think JKR simply hates Snape and made him irredeemably evil (if I even spelled that right). I think she has more up her sleeve for him.

Alynna

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 5:35 pm

Joined: 01 Mar 2005 Posts: 24 Location: central Maryland

It does worry me a bit, for the reason that Rowling never really grasped how important Sirius was to people, but I will be disapointed if there is no redemption for Snape for another rason entirely. It would be much more of a shock for a good character to turn out horrible than for the great greasy git of Slytherin to stay evil, so why continue with the obvious? I will be terribly disappointed if JKR fails to hold to the twists-and-turns style that we've all come to love.

Unless, of course, the whole point is to illustrate the difference between good people and bad people: good people seek redemption for the evil no matter how bad things look. It's what makes us such vewy speciaw, cuddwy-good folks. Rolling Eyes

This would be a lesson not at all in keeping with her previous ones. "Those who look evil must obviously be so; don't look deeper than the surface." Confused

I don't see that happening.

Last edited by Alynna on Sun Jul 17, 2005 5:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
_________________
"Something there is in beauty
which grows in the soul of the beholder
like a flower..."

aphrodeia

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 5:50 pm

Moderator Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 46

While there are many questions, it stands to reason that we should all brace ourselves for the chance that Snape might be truly evil. VERY EVIL. Black as Voldemort himself. If anyone can't handle that possibility, perhaps they should avoid entertainment where they have no control over outcomes. Sad

I see so many people right now getting genuinely angry, or going into fervent denial, and it makes me sad. No matter how much we adore Snape (or our version of), that doesn't mean we're right. He is still owned by Ms. Jo, and in reality, there's nothing we can do about it.

Fandom!Snape, however, is still chained to my bed. Too bad for you all.

Wink

Kherezae

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 5:51 pm

Joined: 16 Jul 2005 Posts: 29 Location: Maryland

Ha, yes, he may end up evil, and I'll agree that in general Fandom Snape is... fairly dead... But still. While I concede there's a chance he'll be evil, I think he'll turn out good. Not nice (never), but good.

Two Methyloctane

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 6:35 pm

Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 96 Location: Calgary, Canada

I don't think Snape could be irredeemably evil. JK doesn't make her main characters that one-dimensional. Not even Voldemort is entirely one-dimensional: he had a past, and was a kid, and was abused. He wasn't evil for the sake of being evil, it was a product of his heritage (the inbred tendency for violence and superiority), his childhood (being different than the other kids), and his own opinions.

Another thing to consider is that this is JK's book. She has it planned out, and things happen for a reason. She didn't kill Sirius because she didn't like him or didn't understand what he meant to people, he died to serve a purpose in the story. If he hadn't died, Harry wouldn't have gotten Kreacher, who wouldn't have discovered where Draco was going.

Similarily, JK didn't have Snape murder Dumbledore because she hates Snape and Snape fans, it has to have some purpose to the story. I don't think JK changes the course of her story to reflect public opinion. Something as intricate as the HP series has been fully planned out. JK already knows how it ends, and there isn't much we as a fan community can do about it. Except write fanfic...

anna_kat

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 7:05 pm

Joined: 01 Jan 2005 Posts: 33

Verity Brown wrote:

I am, in fact, a little fearful that there will some very unhappy--perhaps even tragic--consequences, for some fans, of Joanne's apparent utter failure to understand a not-insignificant portion of her fan base. If that should happen....

I think that, should such things happen, whether she has the decency to feel it or not, the guilt will be deserved.

I believe that JKR has nothing at all to worry about on this front. Children and teens love Harry, Ron and Draco. There is a very nice redemptive twist for Draco going on. Clearly, Rowlings believes that kids and teens can be saved, that adults ought to look out for them, and that even the son of a really bad person, like Lucius Malfoy, is not necessary a lost cause. The six books so far have all been about the importance of choice. So far, none of the kids seems to have made irrevocably wrong choices. That is a great message to give to the target audience of the Harry Potter series.

The Sirius and Snape fans tend to be not children and not confused teenagers. Adults who feel that fictional character betrayed them, take self-insertion a bit far. That can not be healthy. I would be extremely reluctant to blame a writer for the emotional instability of a reader.

Delirium

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 7:12 pm

Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Posts: 34 Location: New York

I don't think JKR hates Snape at all. She has said that she likes writing him and she writes him with so much ambiguity that it leaves doors open. She could have written this in a way that slammed the door shut on Snape, but I don't think she did. Do I think Snape is a horrible person? Hell yeah. He always has been. But I think there's a lot more than meets the eye. I still think that Snape and Dumbledore had their own Unbreakable Vow and that there was enough anger and hate within Snape towards Dumbledore for making him carry out his end of the bargain that casting the killing curse was possible. I can canon Snape being shackled to a vow he wants no part of because once again, it means he is owned by someone. Whether it's Dumbledore or Voldemort, he is still owned and that would make him bitter and horrid. I'm not in denial, I've always written my Snape a little AU.

Iseult

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:51 am

Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Posts: 20 Location: Newcastle, Australia

I will wait for Book 7 (which I hope will clarify this issue). On Snape as good or evil, I am sitting on the fence.
At the end of GOF there seemed a possibility that Snape was a potentially good person/hero. There was further evidence to this in OOTP - being an Order member.
At the end of HBP there is the likelihood that Snape is a 'bad' man doing bad things. It is obvious that Snape is not the nicest person and is magically brilliant - improving potion instructions and devising spells. There has been a lot of reaction to how nasty those spells are but 'good' spells such as a levitating spell can be used to harm a person (or troll -PS/SS) too. Some spells the Unforgivables are more likely to harm an individual and have no benefits.
Snape is nasty. He is cunning. Personally, I would not take everything he says to Harry in a literal sense. I think things are more sophisticated than that and he is still a spy. Snape is not likely to be a good man he can kill (but so do soldiers and they are not universally condemned). I don't think he'd last long as a DE if he couldn't.
Snape is probably bad in the simplistic moral framework JKR uses.
As for the issue of Dumbledore trusting Snape, Dumbledore may truly trust Snape as an Order member or he must trust Snape to follow his own personal agenda that is unkown to Harry/the reader. To me this suggests that Snape may be bad but is he a bad man doing bad things or is he a bad man doing the occassional good thing when it coincides with his aims?

luckycharms

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 6:35 pm

Joined: 20 Jul 2005 Posts: 7

J.K. stated not so long ago on T.V. that she is surprised by the hordes of Snape fans out there and chalked it up to people mentally putting Alan Rickman in the role, because the Snape she has wrote is not a nice man. Whether she meant fans of the movie, fanon or canon I'm not sure but would this stand to mean take him at face value?
She also had this to say when asked about what his Patronus and Boggart forms were, "Well, I'm not going to tell you, but that's because it would give so much away."
Any thoughts on what they may be?

ambi76

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:33 pm

Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 9

His patronus would give too much away? Hm. That does sound interesting.

Or if he were truly evil, would he even be able to conjure a patronus? I thought I read somewhere why the OotP uses patronuses [patronii? Razz

] as a counication device, and it was along the lines of them being purely Good things. Everyone's been quoting old JKR interviews lately, I can't straighten them all out, though. Very Happy

Verity Brown

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:52 pm

Joined: 14 Mar 2005 Posts: 150 Location: Midwest USA

Suppose Lily is his Patronus. ;~)

I still have to wonder what his boggart would be, though, and how that would give things away.

Maybe his boggart is also Lily, expressing her eternal hatred of him? ;~)

After all, we know, from Hermione's boggart (McGonagall telling her she failed all her classes), that a boggart can be a situation just as easily as a person or thing.

Verity

_________________
I still have implicit faith in Severus Snape. Now more than ever.

Two Methyloctane

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:56 am

Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 96 Location: Calgary, Canada

I can see his Boggart being Voldemort discovering that he worked for Dumbledore.

And I like the idea of Lily being his Patronus, the only problem being if they use Patroni to communicate, everyone in the Order would trust him, and he'd not have that to hide from them (if it is indeed true).

My best thought for his Patronus is a phoenix, because Dumbledore accepted him into the Order and gave him a job, which, given his sad life, is probably one of the happiest memories he has.

Still confused as to why Hermione's Patronus is an otter... are Patronus' comething that is very important to the caster, something that caused happiness, or just a representation of the person's spirit?

Last edited by Two Methyloctane on Thu Jul 21, 2005 2:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
_________________
**In Snape We Trust**
"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire

Diana

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 1:36 pm

Head Moderator Joined: 04 Jan 2005 Posts: 116

Well, I'm not sure about everyone else, but I was reading Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, not Severus Snape and...

Essentially, this series revolves around Harry. The majority of the fans in this fandom are Harry fans. Sure, the Snape fanbase is large, but it isn't as large as some of the recent whingers make it out to be. I don't see J.K. Rowling facing a mass exodus of fans any time in the near future.

I have to admit that I'm getting a tad bit annoyed with all the OMGJKROWLINGISTEHEVIL!1111!!! whinging that has taken over the internet. In my opinion it is HER book, HER characters, HER canon, and HER choice. We all need to either learn to live with it or seek out a new fandom.

And, for the record, I'm still not convinced about Snape one way or another. And I can tell you another thing too, at this point, after all of the whinging, I could care less about Severus Snape at the moment too.

Diana

azazello

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 1:52 pm

Joined: 29 Nov 2004 Posts: 183 Location: Northern UK

Diana wrote:

Quote:

And, for the record, I'm still not convinced about Snape one way or another.

And actually, Diana, it's not compulsory that you have to be. The purpose of debate is to have more than one side.

I'm not convinced either, and never have been, despite everyone telling me on and off this forum that I am.

He's a fictional character. Goodness, that's all.

_________________
Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony ~ Monty Python and the Holy Grail

All times are GMT

View next topic View previous topic Page 1 of 2 Goto page 1, 2 Next Sycophant Hex Forum Index ~ The Library

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum