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< The Library ~ Love triangles... heh heh... |
| Two Methyloctane |
 Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 5:40 am |
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 96
Location: Calgary, Canada
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So far, JK has said (directly or discreetly) that we'd learn something about Petunia, Lily, and Snape...
A lot of people think that Lily and Snape may have had a courtship and/or relationship (secret or not), but now with the revelation that Snape was half-blood means he had exposure to the Muggle world...
Maybe he was playing both women... dating Petunia during the summer, and Lily at school... or Snape was with Petunia, Lily got jealous and hexed Petunia by making sure any shild of hers was fat and stupid...
Heh...  How's that for a ship? |
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| SlytherinSexGod |
| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 6:15 am |
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Joined: 19 Jul 2005
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snapepetunyeah? ugh.
my two sen:
snape was attracted to lily, largely due to her intelligence. being Snape, and slytherin, he would have never admitted it directly, instead, pretended hate and stuff. lily was friendly towards him, snape liked it, but of course never showed it. dude's from a screwed background. james (but most likely sirius) found out, and teased the fuck outta him, and abused him and stuff. lily pities him, helps him, but that makes him angrier towards her, because snape hates being pitied and stuff, n coz his ego refuses to accept others into his personal life and world. my guess is he only opened up his heart once, a teeny bit, to lily, n got rejected, co he closed it tightly to the world and became brooding and stuff. the reason he came over to dumbledore is because he overheard that voldermort is going to off lily, so his heart wouldn't allow that. for a guy like him, he'd have only one love. and even though rejected, his heart will always yearn towards her. get it? the reason he hates pottr somuch is because whenever he looks at him, he is painfully reminded of the future he wanted to have with lily, all the imagined happy times together and stuff. that's why he does the i hate you thing, as a shield so the pain he feels won't be noticed. plus he extra hates potter because harry is stupid, and lily was smart, so it seemed like a betrayal to lily that her son, she who was a potions genius, should have an idiot son like harry. i can't put it eloquentl, but i feel the same pain he feels.
or am i only projecting myself into snape?
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| Two Methyloctane |
| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 6:21 am |
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Calgary, Canada
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Hehe, that was mostly a joke, given the wacky theories...
But yes, I believe that there were some feelings between Lily and Snape. She's a nice, compassionate person, and Snape (and probably other guys) fell for her charms.
Whether they were returned remains to be seen, but I definately think there was something there.
And HBP makes it a bit more accessible: they could've lived in the same community, and they share *some* common ground. |
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**In Snape We Trust**
"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire |
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| Lady Whitehart |
| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 10:36 pm |
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Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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Location: East Coast USA
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SlytherinSexGod sounds like you have the beginnings of a fic in the Angst/Humor/Romance category. Don't laugh! It could work. I need ideas so I may need to pick your brain. If you don't mind, that is.
I don't think Harry is stupid, so much as woefully inept at Potions. If that is what Snape admired most about Lily it makes sense that it would bother him. |
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| aphrodeia |
| Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 10:52 pm |
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| I think it's equally likely that Snape hated Lily with a passion. He's proven himself to be petty and overwhelmingly jealous, and it appears she was brilliant in Potions. I don't know how that would have sat with The Prince himself. |
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| deus-ex-maria |
| Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 3:14 pm |
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Joined: 10 Mar 2005
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Quote: I think it's equally likely that Snape hated Lily with a passion.
I agree. I also think it's possible that, if the hatred Snape had for James is mirrored in his treatment of Harry, his feelings for Lily are mirrored in his nastiness to Hermione. |
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| Pace |
| Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 4:07 pm |
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Cologne (Germany)
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It may have been a sort of love-hate thing, too...
About Hermione: I think the problem is that she's the female antithesis to his own youth. She receives excellent marks (much as he did) but also affords herself the luxury of having friends (something he probably didn't have). Or maybe she just gets on his nerves? |
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| deus-ex-maria |
| Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 5:28 pm |
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Quote: About Hermione: I think the problem is that she's the female antithesis to his own youth.
I have to disagree. Hermione is clever, and swotty, but she's not a genius. Snape is, and he knows it. That's why he dismisses her verbatim recitation of the textbook. All that that showed was that she had memorized the text, not that she internalized or even understood the material.
Lily, however, was a muggleborn, and popular, and apparently quite good at doing what she was supposed to. I think Snape resented her for stealing the spotlight by being charming and, as it may have appeared to him, a suck up. He probably views Hermione the same way.[/quote] |
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| liquidscissors |
| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 1:36 am |
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| I think he views Hermione as a piece of gum on the sole of his shoe. |
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| Diana |
| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:30 am |
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| I doubt he even gives it that much thought, actually. |
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| azazello |
| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:52 am |
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Location: Northern UK
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Agreed. To him, she's just another Gryffindor pain in the arse. I cannot imagine Snape's even thought about her at all. All this WIKTT world view, whereby he's spotted her as "being like him" is a horse bred by Wishful Thinking out of Pathetic Justification.
You can (well, could) do the pairing but it needs more set up than insisting any of the following:
1. Snape is actually being mean to the Gryffindors to toughen them up. So he secretly admires Hermione and wishes she was in Slytherin.
2. Snape recognises a kindred spirit in Hermione Granger. She's brilliant and swotty like he was. She's not pretty - like he was. Except that she has friends and is well-integrated like he so manifestly wasn't. Oops.
3. They are soul mates and the two intellectuals of the saga. Except that I see no real evidence that either is a "true intellectual". Hermione's the school swot. She might have other interests than excelling at schoolwork, but I've yet to see them. Snape invented spells for nasty reasons. He was not the cleverest kid in his year, anyway, that honour went to James and Sirius.
During my (short thank god) sojourn on WIKTT, I saw ridiculous "proof" being unearthed of an attraction in canon (which is just bizarre, there is NO mutual attraction between the two in canon):
1. Snape was hacked off at the Yule Ball, because Hermione was with Krum and he'd realised she did not have anti-issues about men with black hair and big schnozzes. Well, that is logic on the lines of thinking that since my ex-partner was brown haired, I am fair game for any guy with brown hair who passes into my range.
2. The notorious movie scene with the werewolf. Which would be fine if it happened in canon. But as it did not, is irrelevant.
So, there's no point in trolling through all the canon to find proof that you can use for attraction. Because there is none. What do people think Ms Rowling is writing, anyway?
I can't see the pairing working, unless the writer spends pages setting it up (pages I'd not be arsed to write  ) because I keep seeing the man in book 6 standing in front of me. He is no catch. Whether he killed Dumbledore for good motives or not. The only possible story I could see working would take place a long time after the final outcome. It would assume that some mechanism had been set up to put Snape in the role of a deep pentration agent into the DE camp (I still can't see that use this is, if no one on the Phoenix side wants to do anything to Snape on sight apart from kill him, but never mind), and (and this is a huge and) he survived. He then escaped and hid. An adult sets out to clear his name. Hermione?
And dear lord, that sounds cliched already. And it still begs the question, what sort of man is Snape?
And also the question, why on earth would Hermione bother?
And at the end of it all, I keep crashing on the issue of the man's mind blowing self-absorption. Blissfully weird to write, if you like people as they really are, not as they ought to be. This lower class kid with a chip on his shoulder makes potentially great fic, but not of the classic romantic kind. |
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| Pace |
| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 12:17 pm |
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Cologne (Germany)
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deus-ex-maria wrote: Quote: About Hermione: I think the problem is that she's the female antithesis to his own youth.
I have to disagree. Hermione is clever, and swotty, but she's not a genius. Snape is, and he knows it. That's why he dismisses her verbatim recitation of the textbook. All that that showed was that she had memorized the text, not that she internalized or even understood the material.
I never said that Hermione is a genius - she said herself that she's only book-smart and even if she was only 12 then, I do believe her on that subject.
Still she is a studious person, someone who spends more time with her books than with children her own age and I think that Snape was very much the same - not by choice, mind. So on the one hand we have Severus Snape, the teen, who was an incridibly gifted but also lonely student and on the other hand we have Hermione Granger who's marks are exceptionally high (even IF she's learnt every book she's ever read by heart, which isn't necessarily a bad thing) but who has also friends. They are troublemakers, alright, and although trouble has a penchant of finding them rather than the other way round and it being doubtful that they would have ever befriended each other in the first place if it hadn't been for that mountain troll incident in their first year, Hermione has that one advantage over him.
Which is, you have to admit, a very good reason for him to loath her. Snape's already proven that he has many not-so-charming sides to his persona; he's petty, he keeps grudges, he's jealous. Maybe he is jealous of Hermione - if he stops long enough to think about it.
The love-hate idea was directed more at Lily and Snape, not Snape and Hermione. It's easy hating someone who has all the things you want or who manages to outdo you, someone to whom every single good thing happens, falling simply into their lap.
But there is a fine line between genius and insanity, love and hate. You can hate someone so all-consumingly that they are on your mind 24/7 and that you feel a terrible loss when they start to ignore your taunts or - worse - stop to taunt you. If you hate someone so passionately the sudden refusal of that person to give you further reason to hate them can create a feeling somewhat similar to lovesickness. And the moment you manage to attract their attention again you are so happy you can't believe it. How I know? It's called love-hate-relationship and I've been in a few of those. Yes I know it's twisted and sick, thank you very much.
But whoever said that Snape isn't just that? |
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| deus-ex-maria |
| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 3:42 pm |
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I'm feel like I'm missing my mark here. What I was trying to say is, the way Snape treats Hermione probably reflects the way he felt about Lily. Not that he's internally drawn some parallel between the two (I'm the only one doing that), other than that he dislikes that type. The same goes for the way he treats Neville, he'd most likely treat any incompetent that way. He does seem to target Neville, Hermione and Harry more so than others, but that is probably the Harry filter at work.
Pace, where is the evidence that Snape was lonely or friendless? I had the impression he part of a 'gang of Slytherins'. We've only seen Snape as a youth when he was being tormented (bullies don't generally pick on you when you're surrounded by your friends) or at home. We have no idea what his 'normal' life was like. Or am I completely missing something? |
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| Pace |
| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:00 pm |
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deus-ex-maria wrote: Pace, where is the evidence that Snape was lonely or friendless? I had the impression he part of a 'gang of Slytherins'. We've only seen Snape as a youth when he was being tormented (bullies don't generally pick on you when you're surrounded by your friends) or at home. We have no idea what his 'normal' life was like. Or am I completely missing something?
Yes, in OotP Sirius does say that Snape was part of a gang of Slytherins who nearly all turned out to be Death Eaters, but the way I see it there is a huge difference between 'being part of a gang/group' and 'being friends with someone' not to say that the source of this information is Sirius; I doubt he particularly cared to find out more about Snape than what already was common knowledge.
There's also the remark about Snape being Lucius 'lap dog' (also by Sirius) but again, that doesn't necessarily mean that they are/were friends (keyword: symbiosis).
You are right, however. There really is no proof in canon for my assumptions; but there is nothing that proofs my assumption false, either. |
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