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| PhoenixFeather7 |
 Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 10:20 am |
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Joined: 27 Aug 2005
Posts: 3
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Noticed this when I was re-reading...
From the chapter 'flight of the prince':
"Kill me then" panted Harry, who felt no fear at all, but only rage and contempt. "Kill me like you killed him, you coward -"
"DON'T -" screamed Snape, and his face was suddenly demented, inhuman, as though he was in as much pain as the yelping, howling dog stuck in the burning houes behind them, "- CALL ME A COWARD"
Harry calls him a coward for killing Dumbledore and then Snape looks as though he's in pain, that doesn't sound like an evil Death Eater who hates Dumbledore and really wants him dead, does it?
And just a few pages before Dumbledore said "I trust Severus Snape completely." Sure, he's been wrong before, but he must be right about something  |
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| Mimmy |
| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 2:13 pm |
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Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 29
Location: Azkaban
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And just a few pages before Dumbledore said "I trust Severus Snape completely." Sure, he's been wrong before, but he must be right about something [/quote]
Maybe I just forgot all about it but what exactly is the reason that Dumbledore trusts Snape? I seem to remember that it this has been mentioned and questioned in OoP but did we actually get an answer?
Mimmy |
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| azazello |
| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:47 pm |
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Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Posts: 183
Location: Northern UK
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We do not know why Dumbledore trusts Snape, hence much of the cliffhanger and mystery about the ending of book 6. Clearly it is moot.
Secondly, I'm not sure where the earlier poster gets this "Dumbledore's been wrong before." bit. When, exactly? Because in my reading of all the earlier books, Dumbledore is usually right, at least from a moral, and overview standpoint. |
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| mouseII |
| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:44 pm |
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Joined: 05 May 2005
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Quote: Secondly, I'm not sure where the earlier poster gets this "Dumbledore's been wrong before." bit. When, exactly? Because in my reading of all the earlier books, Dumbledore is usually right, at least from a moral, and overview standpoint.
I think Snape was a pretty nasty piece of work as a kid, but one could certainly question Dumbledore's judgement, even from a moral point of view, when it comes to how he handled Snape's welfare when Snape was a boy. However, we probably don't know half the story, so it might not be fair to judge Dumbledore based on this. |
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| sariah snape |
| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 4:11 am |
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Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 15
Location: Snape's office
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azazello wrote: We do not know why Dumbledore trusts Snape, hence much of the cliffhanger and mystery about the ending of book 6.
There is a theory going around. A strong one. It involves a boggart and a patronus.
I'm guessing the reason Dumbledore trusted Snape so much is because he saw his boggart. You cannot lie about your fears, and when Dumbledore saw the boggart, he trusted him instantly. What could the boggart have been? More than likely, it was Snape betraying Dumbledore in some form.
Think about it. If you saw someone's boggart, and it represented them betraying you in some way, you know you can trust them, because it's the last thing they want to do!
I can't remember all of the details behind the patronus, but it has to do with the scene in the hospital ing, with the Pheonix's song. Once Fawkes starting singing, all the Order members calmed almost instantly, as if understanding something, but Poppy, Harry, and the other teens did not. I think Fawkes' song had a hidden message.
Like I said before, these are just theories. |
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| harmmac |
| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:57 am |
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Joined: 27 Sep 2006
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azazello wrote: Secondly, I'm not sure where the earlier poster gets this "Dumbledore's been wrong before." bit. When, exactly? Because in my reading of all the earlier books, Dumbledore is usually right, at least from a moral, and overview standpoint.
Usually that is indeed true; unless, of course, you count the yearly tenures of Quirell, Lockhart and the ever famous Moody Mix Up (which did seem odd to me, given that Dumbledore knew Moody personally for so many years). It appears that Albus is wonderfully wise everywhere but in his choice of Defence Against the Dark Arts teachers.
I do agree however that Severus Snape is a trustworthy individual, I would trust him with my very existence - but then, I'm terribly biased.  |
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| harmmac |
| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:00 am |
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Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Posts: 2
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What the heck is going on with my Avataar???
It seems to have exploded in size! Am trying to fix before mass complaintsv are lodged.
Apologies
Mac. |
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| thegreatsporkwielder |
| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:14 pm |
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Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Posts: 26
Location: Leading my Spork Army to World Domination
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Dumbledore has been portrayed as a trustworthy sort throughout the books, as well as a very intelligent wizard. So I think that we (as well as Harry) should be able to trust his judgement. I don't think he's the kind to be hoodwinked by Snape, even if Snape is an uber-Slytherin.
The boggart idea seems to make sense to me. Or maybe Snape let Dumbledore look inside his head...but then again, that seems a bit too much of an invasion of privacy for someone as closed-up as Snape. |
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| warren61889 |
| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 2:18 am |
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Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 14
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| I agree. I really don't think Snape wanted to betray Dumbledore. I think Dumbledore asked him to do it. |
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| Pennfana |
| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 3:24 am |
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Joined: 07 Dec 2004
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Location: Ontario, Canada
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Just for the sake of playing Devil's Advocate for a moment...
It's certainly true that Dumbledore's usually right from a moral standpoint, but sometime (I think) in HBP he admitted that he was brilliant enough to rarely be wrong—but that when he did slip up, his mistakes tended to be much bigger than most people's would be. (I can't remember the precise quote or the chapter it was in, but I do remember him saying it.) Perhaps trusting Snape is an example of one of these mistakes.
Now, don't get me wrong; Snape's one of my favourite characters, even if I do disapprove of his teaching methods. It's just that I don't trust him to be one of the "good guys" as long as it looks to him like Voldemort's going to win. |
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| LadyWhitehart |
| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 8:30 pm |
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Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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Location: New Jersey, USA
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So you think there is a strong possibility that Snape is only loyal to Snape? Makes you wonder if he has designs on becoming the next Dark Lord, doesn't it? Dumbledore's out of the way. If Potter dies while defeating Voldie, no one is really there to stop him. Of course he needs to survive the war.
Was that a plot bunny that just hopped by? |
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| im2sleepy2 |
| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:43 pm |
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Possibly the mistake that Dumbledore is referring to is that he let the Marauders get away with virtually everything, including traumatizing the young Severus (not saying that Snape didn't 1. deserve what he got to some extent. and 2. didn't give as well as he got. and 3. didn't instigate his fair share.)
There were a few things that Dumbledore shrugged off as "boys will be boys" that he really shouldn't have. At the time he didn't think about it too "Siriusly" but as they say "hindsight is 20/20" as he got older he may have realized that his overlooking may have led Severus to become the man and deatheater that he is.
Also if Snape is the evil deatheater that we are supposed to think that he is, then why didn't he take Harry with him and Draco when they were leaving?
It would have been the perfect opportunity for him and would have put him in the "good graces" of Voldemort. Voldemort would have had exactly what he wanted. Harry Potter and the opportunity to kill him without the worry of Dumbledore coming to Harry's rescue. And as depressed over the death of Dumbledore that everyone is the fact that Harry is missing would not have penetrated many peoples minds for a few hours at least. (except maybe Ron and Hermione of course.)
Quote: Quote:
Secondly, I'm not sure where the earlier poster gets this "Dumbledore's been wrong before." bit. When, exactly? Because in my reading of all the earlier books, Dumbledore is usually right, at least from a moral, and overview standpoint.
The earlier poster is getting that from "Half Blood Prince" chapter 10 "the House of Gaunt" page 197 the second to the last paragraph.
Dumbledore says "Naturally, I do, but as I have already proven to you, I make mistakes like the next man. In fact, being --- forgive me--- rather cleverer than most men, my mistakes tend to be correspondingly huger."
I hope that last part helps those wondering about Dumbledore admitting to making mistakes.... |
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| Mathstarlette |
| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:11 am |
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Joined: 03 Mar 2006
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Location: out of my mind, leave a message at the beep
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I have alot of opinions about snape, but I do get fanfic and the books mixed easily, but i do have one thing to say.
All of the books are from potter's point of view. Now think, then admitt it. The 'Harry filter' has been off, many times before. And the worst thing about seeing from only one person's point of view, even if it isn't first person, is that they don't know everything, and tend to be biased. Like in the first book when Harry thought Snape was trying to steal the stone, or the second book when Harry thought Draco was the hier of Slytherin, or the third, when Harry was convinced that Black couldn't know about the secret enterence in Honeydukes, or so on and so forth. I could type for hours about all the things Harry has been wrong about.
Point is, when you look at characters about like Snape, Draco, or any characters really, that Harry has a formed opinion about, you need to try and see what's really going on, without Harry's bias opinions clouding what's really there. |
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| Vorona |
| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:19 am |
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Joined: 24 Apr 2007
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Dumbledore has had a problem with trusting people in his school that he shouldn't (Quirrel and Crouch Jr./Moody). However, every single time that Dumbledore has been hoodwinked, so has Harry and everyone else. In other words, he's been wrong before, but at the same time, so has everyone else.
Dumbledore also has a habit of trusting people that no one else trusts: Hagrid, Lupin, Sirius, and occasionally Harry (after the incident with Sirius, and when everyone thinks he's insane to suggest that Voldemort is really back). In those cases, he's *always* right.
And when he has reason to distrust someone, he's going to investigate the matter. Tom Riddle could have given him an excellent sob story of remorse to get the Defence job, but I doubt that would have swayed Dumbledore.
Dumbledore has asserted over and over again that he trusts Snape, and that he trusts him *completely*. I highly doubt this is one of his "big mistakes". I think he does know something that he's not telling Harry. I don't think it was just that he felt sorry -- Dumbledore would know that that wouldn't be enough of a reason... unless of course he is better at Legilimency than Snape is at Occlumency, but I doubt you can count on that... that is, I bet a good Occlumens can make it seem like the Legilimens is successful when that is not the case, and I don't think Dumbledore would be that arrogant, especially since he knows that Snape is a good Occlumens (one of his reasons for having Snape teach Harry).
Snape might be on his own side. After everything he's been through with the Order, it wouldn't be entirely surprising that he'd go his own way, especially now that Dumbledore is dead.
I highly doubt that he's a "loyal Death Eater". I think he's too proud, for one thing. He's seen how people are treated by Voldemort: punishments for failure, all sorts of rituals of humiliation and devotion... I doubt that he'd stand for much of that unless he were secretly mocking the man and working for his downfall.
I do think he's Dumbledore's man. I think being trusted by someone, especially if it seems undeserved, can make someone like Snape become trustworthy. And I think this is a kind of magic that Dumbledore has that is not limited to wands and wizards. He's very good at making people intensely loyal to him.
Of course, I could be completely wrong. If he turns out to be a loyal Death Eater, though, I will lose some respect for Rowling as a writer, because it really flattens his character and makes him much less interesting and complex. |
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